Velvet and Eels, and Copper, Oh My!

[Hugh Mann]

Having determined that I have a velvet infestation, which has already killed numerous fish, I have torn down my rock work and am ready to start dosing Coppersafe (Canadian, I was lucky to get even this stuff). However, I have an eel in my tank, which I am told/read DO NOT tolerate copper, if it lives through treatment it won't be for even a year.

I FW dipped the survivors and they're looking good, so I have a little time to set something up to try and save the eel. My plan was to take a 15gal tote with some live rock and air stones, plus a mesh lid. Maybe go out and buy a small sponge filter or aquaclear 50 or something.

Any issues or suggestions with this? With my current resources and COVID lockdowns, I can't do much more than this.

 

[Big G]

Foam bubble filter, Aquaclear, and a small powerhead have served me well in QT setups. I add a mesh bag of either Seachem's Matrix or Fluval's BioMax into the HOB. Soak the ceramic media and the foam pads in BioSpira or something similar for 12 hours and then pour the liquid into the QT.

 

[lion king]

Frequent, if not small daily water changes. Can you get hold of some live macro algae. I don;t know what kind of equipment you have laying around, putting together some sort macro algae reactor. I'm glad you are trying this, I was very upset when I had to treat for velvet with a jeweled eel in the tank. He made it through treatment, then i lost him with no notice several months later.

 

[Williamson’s Reef]

I lost 13/14 fish to velvet. All from a pair of mandarins I added. The only thing to not go through copper. After that I put my snowflake through 30 days of copper power at 2.25. Zero issues. No change in appetite. Nothing goes in the tank if it can’t survive copper now.

 

[Hugh Mann]

Frequent, if not small daily water changes. Can you get hold of some live macro algae. I don;t know what kind of equipment you have laying around, putting together some sort macro algae reactor. I'm glad you are trying this, I was very upset when I had to treat for velvet with a jeweled eel in the tank. He made it through treatment, then i lost him with no notice several months later.

I'll do that, got plenty of salt. How much would you recommend changing/how often? I've got him in a 20 gallon plastic tote (BPA free), with a heater I borrowed, some live rock, sand with his tube to hide in and two airstones, plus my nassarius snails and a line hermit. Old window screen for a lid with one of my two tank lights on low power. Only about 10 gallons of water, until I can reinforce the sides. I have a small aquaclear coming in a couple days (out locally, can't travel), that I will set up too.

I could probably get some macro from my friend here, but I've had tick poor luck keeping macro alive in the past. Nothing to use as a reactor anyways. Maybe a bucket with pumps and grow light?

Even though I've spent 4x what this eel cost me to try and save it, I consider it worth it. Not only for respect for a living animal, but it's my favourite fish.

 

[lion king]

I value the life of my $30 fuzzy as much as my $450 rhino. You just figure eels cause alot of waste. In that size container just doing a gallon every couple of days would make huge difference. As far as the macro goes just floating in the container may help, as long as does get some light source. I even have it growing in one of my displays with low, limited lighting.

 

[Hugh Mann]

Easy enough. Will do. This weekend I'll try to source something a little bigger too. This eel isn't huge, 14" max, but I want it stress free as possible, since it'll be in there for at least 2-3 weeks.

I'll see about getting a small piece of macro, see if that can help. Water should be pretty pristine at the moment since it was new water.

You mentioned before having an eel in a velvet tank and transferring it out. I assume whatever parasites are on the eel should die off if it's alone and healthy. But it can eventually be put back in the DT with the other fish, and no risk of reinfection?

 

[lion king]

I transferred an eel out of a velvet infected tank into anothet tank with fish. The velvet had killed everyone else in that tank, the eel was never effected. I have read various reports and witnessed several times that a protazoan type parasite like ick and velvet can not attach to a healthy eel. After about 3 weeks I decided to put the eel in another. There was no transfer of the velvet. Do if your eel never succumbs to the velvet, I believe it will be dafe for you to retirn him to tge dt, after you have treated and removed all the copper. I have a good technique for removing copper, that would even make the tank reef safe, if you needed that info. Just remember to test your copper during treatment, because in a diisplay, you will get absorbtion, so its a bit more complicated than just dosing a certain amount.

 

[Hugh Mann]

That's great to know. The eel seems pretty healthy/normal now, so by the time the velvet is taken care of I can add it back and hope it doesn't recur.

I stripped by DT down to bare glass, have all the sand and rock sitting in totes and buckets. Except for a handful of sand I couldn't get out, it only has pvc fittings for makeshift hides. However, I would appreciate any tips on how to get all the copper out, since I'll be running all the same equipment, filters, etc with new media once it's done. Thank you.

 

[lion king]

Do you.plan to put the same rocks back, I would be concerned, as I believe this can be a point of transfer. Those rocks would have to sit out the full time of fallow, you'll have to look up the lifespan of velvet. Clearing copper from what you have left is easy, its rocks and substrate that takes a bit of extra care. You can run cuprizorb or carbon once finished with a series of water chqnges., until you test zero for copper.

 

[Hugh Mann]

Do you.plan to put the same rocks back, I would be concerned, as I believe this can be a point of transfer. Those rocks would have to sit out the full time of fallow, you'll have to look up the lifespan of velvet. Clearing copper from what you have left is easy, its rocks and substrate that takes a bit of extra care. You can run cuprizorb or carbon once finished with a series of water chqnges., until you test zero for copper.

Excellent, seems simple enough to get rid of the copper.

Fallow period for velvet seems to be recommended at 6 weeks. Probably how long the eel should be separate too I would think? Ideally I would like to reuse my rock as it's rather expensive to replace. Probably would get a small amount of dry rock to use until it's guaranteed velvet free.

 

[Hugh Mann]

So it's been 11 weeks give or take a few days.

Eel is still in isolation, and is quite happy and healthy. Been having a struggle getting the copper out of the water, I used chelated, so both a higher dose and Cuprisorb is less effective. Salt is a rare commodity in my parts as of late, so I have been somewhat restricted on large water changes, hence the overly long duration.

Anyways, the more I have read on the subject, it really seems like there isn't any velvet remaining in the system. Eel shows zero signs, and is as previously stated, still alive. Eating well and as far as I can tell, super healthy.

I'm thinking about tossing a couple black mollies in there to 'test' for Velvet. Would save me having to unnecessarily run him through TTM, and wait an additional six weeks to reuse the rock in his tank.

Worst case they die of velvet, and I know for sure.

Best case they live, it's all good, and either my eel gets a tasty treat or I have a couple extra fish in my tank.

Think this would work/had it been done before?

 

[lion king]

That's fine to toss in a couple of mollies, though i do think 11 weeks is way fine. You say your are using cuprisorb to remove the copper, that;s what I always used, it can take quite a while if you had rocks and such in the tank. I run mine through a reactor; a hob filter or a place where the flow is forced through helps. It could take a few days to a week to get to testing zero, then run a couple more weeks to mop up any leaching. I like to follow up with a bio-marine poly filter, it will turn blue if there's still copper leaching through.

 

[Hugh Mann]

It's been in there two weeks already in an aquaclear 70. No rocks or anything. I wonder if the filter media is leaching copper? Could buy some new sponges and soak them in Bacter7.

Think I am going to get the mollies, just to verify. Would make my rebuild much smoother if I can reuse everything right away.

 

[lion king]

It's been in there two weeks already in an aquaclear 70. No rocks or anything. I wonder if the filter media is leaching copper? Could buy some new sponges and soak them in Bacter7.

Think I am going to get the mollies, just to verify. Would make my rebuild much smoother if I can reuse everything right away.

If you dont have rocks or substrate leaching copper, cuprisorb should clear that easily, within a few days. If for whatever reason the cuprisorb is ineffective, there is a way to recharge it. Regular carbon also will remove it, as I mentioned a poly filter is also good insurance, it like an indicator to let you know if you cleaned it all up.

 

[Zionas]

Don’t mean to hijack but what fish are especially / relatively likely to survive velvet and beat it without being affected much or at all? In other words, we have the ich resistant fish but which fish are very resistant to velvet too? What fish are among the first to perish from velvet?

I know Clowns, Rabbitfish, Gobies, Blennies, Wrasses have very thick slime coats.

 

[lion king]

Don’t mean to hijack but what fish are especially / relatively likely to survive velvet and beat it without being affected much or at all? In other words, we have the ich resistant fish but which fish are very resistant to velvet too? What fish are among the first to perish from velvet?

I know Clowns, Rabbitfish, Gobies, Blennies, Wrasses have very thick slime coats.

Ick and velvet are both protozoan type diseases, they attach themselves to the fish. The same fish that display a resistance to ick, would also have a resistance to velvet. Resistance doesn't mean immunity, there are other factors that play in, the overall health of the individual fish as one.

This thread was in regards to eels, which I have found to be some of the most resistant in these regards. I have seen many eels survive Ick and velvet with no effect. I even transferred an eel during the active period of velvet, unknowingly, with no transfer to the new tank. Healthy lions also have a strong resistance.

 

[Hugh Mann]

It was brand new Cuprisorb, but I have read that it tends to work much slower on chelated copper. Will get some of the poly too. Thanks for the suggestion. Hopefully it won't take much longer. I'm eager to know if there was any transfer, not that there would be any left by now. I will keep you posted on what happens.