Velvet/ich control with cupramine

kingkai512 · Jul 19, 2018

So I have been having difficulty controlling this outbreak, i had a previous thread about my experience here:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-long-before-cupramine-takes-effect.407201/#post-4837631

i was at .05 copper and I still notice the spots grow in number until i lost multiple fish. Am I missing something here? i do have some live rock and sand in the tank, but i am testing daily (seachem multitest kit) and the levels are still .05 +. is my protein skimmer having an effect on the dosage? i would think at .05 copper and above not much could survive.

HotRocks · Jul 19, 2018

I would disable skimmer. You might look into a Hanna copper checker as well. You might find that your visual reading was off.

Other possibility is that you have encountered a strain of parasite that is copper resistant.

falconut · Jul 19, 2018

Second the Hanna checker, I thought I was around 0.4 with the Seachem test, but got Hanna checker & was closer to 0.2. And I'm guessing you believe your at 0.5, not 0.05.

Nopy117 · Jul 20, 2018

How long have you been at therapeutic copper levels? I recently have seen the exit wounds appear as "new" spots as far as 5 days into therapeutic copper, since we know velvet can feed off the fish for up too 4 days, its not outside the realm of possibility to see the symptoms on day 5. Unless your seeing new spots as far as the 7 day plus mark, or especially the 10-14 day mark, I wouldn't worry about the treatment being ineffective just yet.

kingkai512 · Jul 20, 2018

i have been seeing new spots appear after the 4 day mark, i got this new batch last weds and today the powder blue still has spots, some in new areas.
when i did add them on Weds, i lowered the copper to .3 and raised it back up to .5 the very next day, been .5 ever since

HotRocks · Jul 20, 2018

Can you post pics of this fish?

Maybe it's not ich or velvet?

Or, your copper level may not be as high as you think.

How many gallons is your QT and how much cupramine did you dose to raise the level .2ppm?

Manics1 · Jul 21, 2018

As said previously, get the Hanna checker, it gives piece of mind and removes any doubt.
I've hand nothing but parasite issues in a 2nd tank l've started, this is even after QT'ing, l'm currently on round 3 of a velvet / whitespot battle.
I decided to treat the tank with Cupramine, there's only rock, sand and 2 fish resident. I bought the Salifert and Seachem test sets, couldn't be 100% on what either read, but l reckoned l was at 0.5... Splashed the cash on the Hanna to confirm any doubt, 0.5 was actually 0.34.

kingkai512 · Jul 25, 2018

so a quick update, ive been slowly ramping up the cupramine since my last post and the last test was .6, removed all the live rock and protein skimmet to reduce variables. all of the other fish seem fine but powder blue seems to have it the worst, it has gotten progressively worse.

naso is also still showing symptoms, is there such a thing as copper resistant velvet?

Maritimer · Jul 25, 2018

With velvet, the white spots you see are the fish's body's reactions to the parasite, so they can take a bit to show - and a bit to go, especially since the parasites can remain attached while copper is ramping up.

@Humblefish may be able to offer direction or reassurance, as after a week, I should think the worst would be over for these guys.

~Bruce

Humblefish · Jul 25, 2018

The longest a velvet trophont should remain on a fish is 4 days; with ich it's 7 days.

How long has your copper been at therapeutic?

kingkai512 · Jul 25, 2018

the fish were in .2 copper on 7/10, on 7/11 it was raised back up to .5 ish and it has remained there ever since (no top offs no water changes either) it wasnt until sunday 7/22 that i removed the live rock and skimmer to see if that would help any, it didnt...

i did have to replace the water lost when i removed the rock but i added 11 drops of cupramine (20 per 10.5 gallon) for 4 gallons of saltwater

HotRocks · Jul 26, 2018

Cupramine requires 40 drops per 10.5 gallons to reach the therapeutic level. If you read the instructions is says repeat initial dose again after 48 hours.

What test kit are you using?

kingkai512 · Jul 26, 2018

im using the Seachem MultiTest Copper Test Kit but like i mentioned before, the test has been showing .5+ and still the velvet is growing, i even removed the rock and skimmer on 7/23 just to get rid of any variables, but the test still says .5+

Humblefish · Jul 26, 2018

kingkai512 said:
im using the Seachem MultiTest Copper Test Kit but like i mentioned before, the test has been showing .5+ and still the velvet is growing, i even removed the rock and skimmer on 7/23 just to get rid of any variables, but the test still says .5+

How often were you testing when the rock was present? Undoubtedly it was absorbing some of the copper, causing the level to be unstable.

kingkai512 · Jul 26, 2018

i think i was testing every 3 or 4 days, but the test would always read greater than .05, i would think there would be some relief after .3. Maybe that's how these fish could live this long with marine velvet, it seems like the copper is only slowing it down.

Humblefish · Jul 26, 2018

kingkai512 said:
i think i was testing every 3 or 4 days, but the test would always read greater than .05, i would think there would be some relief after .3. Maybe that's how these fish could live this long with marine velvet, it seems like the copper is only slowing it down.

I would start testing daily. It's possible your Cu level was dipping below therapeutic whilst the rock was present in QT, allowing some of the free swimmers to survive.