Velvet?

Reefer1978 · Oct 21, 2023

Animals are already in copper tank getting treatment. I just want to confirm my suspicion that this is velvet. Thank you ahead of time.

Some additional info - super quick onset after lights were increased in power. lost 4 fish within 48 hours, 2 24 hours later and 2 48, they showed no sign unfortunately so I couldn't catch it earlier. Caught everyone else and moved to a QT tank with copper. Only the tang is showing signs and is fully covered now, but everyone is getting treated.

Another question I have, how long would it take for the tang to get some relief in Copper.

Reefer1978 · Oct 21, 2023

@Jay Hemdal would love your thoughts.

Jay Hemdal · Oct 21, 2023

Reefer1978 said:
Animals are already in copper tank getting treatment. I just want to confirm my suspicion that this is velvet. Thank you ahead of time.

Some additional info - super quick onset after lights were increased in power. lost 4 fish within 48 hours, 2 24 hours later and 2 48, they showed no sign unfortunately so I couldn't catch it earlier. Caught everyone else and moved to a QT tank with copper. Only the tang is showing signs and is fully covered now, but everyone is getting treated.

Another question I have, how long would it take for the tang to get some relief in Copper.

Those spots are way too large to be velvet. With velvet (Amyloodinium) the only real initial symptom is rapid breathing and not eating. At the end of the infection, you can sometimes see a haze/dust on the body.

How long has this tang been in copper, what type of copper and what is the dose?

These are most likely "mucus plugs" that this species gets when stressed, and copper can cause it.

Jay

Reefer1978 · Oct 21, 2023

Jay Hemdal said:
Those spots are way too large to be velvet. With velvet (Amyloodinium) the only real initial symptom is rapid breathing and not eating. At the end of the infection, you can sometimes see a haze/dust on the body.

How long has this tang been in capper, what type of copper and what is the dose?

These are most likely "mucus plugs" that this species gets when stressed, and copper can cause it.

Jay

Spots are actually tiny, the tang is still a baby, about 2 inches long. She's a yellow-belly, didn't fully develop yellow yet. There was rapid breathing and not eating from other fish I lost. And sensitivity to bright light as I read is common with Velvet.

I am using coppersafe, 2.3ppm just now, increased the dose to 2.5. She's in there for 2 days, took me a while to catch her as she has a perfect hiding spot in the rock. Just now she came out, looking much better, and looked for food. I don't think it's mucus plugs and she got sick in DT right when other 4 died.. few spots at night, in the morning - picture above that I posted, next day she was fully covered, head to tail, I don't have a picture as I didn't want to stress her more.

MnFish1 · Oct 21, 2023

Reefer1978 said:
Spots are actually tiny, the tang is still a baby, about 2 inches long. She's a yellow-belly, didn't fully develop yellow yet. There was rapid breathing and not eating from other fish I lost. And sensitivity to bright light as I read is common with Velvet.

I am using coppersafe, 2.3ppm just now, increased the dose to 2.5. She's in there for 2 days, took me a while to catch her as she has a perfect hiding spot in the rock. Just now she came out, looking much better, and looked for food. I don't think it's mucus plugs and she got sick in DT right when other 4 died.. few spots at night, in the morning - picture above that I posted, next day she was fully covered, head to tail, I don't have a picture as I didn't want to stress her more.

The copper you are using is adequate at 2.5. However, your other fish should also be treated assuming you're treating a parasitic disease, and your tank would need to be fallow.

Question for @Jay Hemdal I was under the impression that mucus plugs were rarely on the fins/more on the body?

Reefer1978 · Oct 21, 2023

MnFish1 said:
The copper you are using is adequate at 2.5. However, your other fish should also be treated assuming you're treating a parasitic disease, and your tank would need to be fallow.

Question for @Jay Hemdal I was under the impression that mucus plugs were rarely on the fins/more on the body?

All fish are in QT, tank fallow as of 2 days ago

Jay Hemdal · Oct 21, 2023

MnFish1 said:
The copper you are using is adequate at 2.5. However, your other fish should also be treated assuming you're treating a parasitic disease, and your tank would need to be fallow.

Question for @Jay Hemdal I was under the impression that mucus plugs were rarely on the fins/more on the body?

Correct, that's what I typically see. It was unclear to me how long the fish had been in full copper. For some reason, I just assumed it had been in copper for some time. I think it has only been at full copper for two days? If so, then this is ich.

Thanks for pointing that out.....

Jay

Reefer1978 · Oct 21, 2023

Jay Hemdal said:
Correct, that's what I typically see. It was unclear to me how long the fish had been in full copper. For some reason, I just assumed it had been in copper for some time. I think it has only been at full copper for two days? If so, then this is ich.

Thanks for pointing that out.....

Jay

Correct only two days. How can you tell apart, ich and velvet? And would ich suddenly kill 4 fish within 24 hours just from the bright lights? No other symptoms?

MnFish1 · Oct 21, 2023

Reefer1978 said:
Correct only two days. How can you tell apart, ich and velvet? And would ich suddenly kill 4 fish within 24 hours just from the bright lights? No other symptoms?

Ich can suddenly kill fish - and it can be massive - depending on the general condition of the fish - as well as the stocking density. You could have both ich and velvet (I.e. I agree with you that it's quick for ich) - did you see similar spots on the other fish?

Reefer1978 · Oct 21, 2023

MnFish1 said:
Ich can suddenly kill fish - and it can be massive - depending on the general condition of the fish - as well as the stocking density. You could have both ich and velvet (I.e. I agree with you that it's quick for ich) - did you see similar spots on the other fish?

I did not, but when I found them they were covered in sand and snails.

MnFish1 · Oct 21, 2023

Reefer1978 said:
I did not, but when I found them they were covered in sand and snails.

I.e. dead? I'm going to have to agree with you - that it could be velvet - in addition to Ich - with the good news being - both are treated by what you're doing. Sorry you're going through a hard time with your tank. Keep us updated - as that may change recommendations!

Jay Hemdal · Oct 21, 2023

Reefer1978 said:
Correct only two days. How can you tell apart, ich and velvet? And would ich suddenly kill 4 fish within 24 hours just from the bright lights? No other symptoms?

I’m not sure how the lights would factor into this? As long as they aren’t blindly bright, they don’t have any real impact on disease. You may have read that “velvet gets worse under light”? That is wrong information that got spread around the Internet and now it won’t go away (sigh). That applies to freshwater velvet, caused by a different organism.

Velvet causes rapid breathing, not eating, swimming into currents and then death in a few days. Sometimes you can see a sort of dust on the fish.

These spots are not velvet - given the short time the fish has been in copper, they are ich, possibly mixed with mucus plugs.

Ich usually takes a week or so to kill fish, once you see spots.

It is possible, but rare, for fish to get velvet and ich at the same time. If you post a video, I can judge the respiration rate to try and confirm or rule that out.

Jay