Vermetid Snail infestation

ninjamyst · Dec 5, 2022

msreefer said:
I have had them for about 10 months now. They were spreading like wild fire until I got rid of all my fish and did not feed my tank a single thing for 6 to 8 months. I also added 50ish bumblebee snails to the tank (260g). After 6 months I felt like the snails didn't do anything but closer to the 8 month mark I started noticing a difference in the population. After doing a lot of reading it seems as the common denominator is feeding. If you have a way to get your fish out and stop feeding the tank for a long period of time seems like the key. I haven't lost any coral but I have to keep a eye on my nitrates as I have really good filtration and without feeding they can get low. I'm starting to have hope now. I actually bought a used tank to setup and very slowly transfer a little rock at a time and glue every one of the Snails shut. I understand I will not get 100% of them but that mixed with the no feeding just might work.

How is this sustainable? Like you said you will never get rid of them all and you can't not feed your fish and corals forever. Its a loosing battle.

Biologic · Dec 6, 2022

A lot of these posts making suggestions on "how to get rid of them" obviously don't have a problem with them. Otherwise, they'd know they are impossible to get rid of. "reduce your particulate matter"?? Seriously? How laughable. I run a very high flow SPS tank. No sand. I change my filter socks -- everyday. Everyday. I don't feed reefroids and alike. I feed a small amount of pellets daily. I have a couple of small damsels and one tang. Vermenteds are pure survivors.

Onto serious suggestions:

The one thing that has not been suggested yet is chemical intervention. I've seen reports of people using ivermectin to kill SPS pests, red bugs and alike, which ended up killing all the snails in the tank, including all inverts. I am willing to do this to get rid of them. I will set up a new tank, just for the inverts to live, until I can test slowly by adding an invert one in at a time weeks after treatment. Even then, the snails will have to be taken to a LFS to live out their life there. You can't get the larva that might be on their shell or active small worms.

What's worse is coral boring spionids, I've posted about them a few times.

Bot587 · Dec 6, 2022

For some reason the quoted line didn’t generate in post. This is in response to the comment on my original post.

Generally true, however in time the bumblebee snails will get them. A long time back (4 years) my tank was covered. Got a couple bumblebee snails when a buddy gave me some gonzos. Over the coarse of a year or two they eliminated all the vermetid snails. I’m by no means saying this as a quick fix, it will take time and I wouldn’t throw a lot in. But, eventually the bumblebee snails will reduce them (just my two cents)

Sisterlimonpot · Dec 6, 2022

Biologic said:
I've seen reports of people using ivermectin to kill SPS pests, red bugs and alike

Hmm, this is interesting, about 3 years ago I treated my tank with interceptor for white bugs (very similar to red bugs).

I just looked up if interceptor has ivermectin, and it seems that it does not.

I'm curious, can you share the thread(s) where people discuss it? I can search too but would be better to read the one(s) you're referring to.

Bot587 said:
For some reason the quoted line didn’t generate in post. This is in response to the comment on my original post.

Generally true, however in time the bumblebee snails will get them. A long time back (4 years) my tank was covered. Got a couple bumblebee snails when a buddy gave me some gonzos. Over the coarse of a year or two they eliminated all the vermetid snails. I’m by no means saying this as a quick fix, it will take time and I wouldn’t throw a lot in. But, eventually the bumblebee snails will reduce them (just my two cents)

I want to clarify,

Everytime I read that people were successful with bumblebee snails they were for the ones that have tubes the diameter of the hollow part that supports the lead of a mechanical pencil (if thatmakes sense). The ones with tubes closer to the outer diameter of a regular pencil are the ones that are hard to rid the tank of.

Was your success with the larger variety vermiteds or the smaller ones?

ninjamyst · Dec 6, 2022

Sisterlimonpot said:
Everytime I read that people were successful with bumblebee snails they were for the ones that have tubes the diameter of the hollow part that supports the lead of a mechanical pencil (if thatmakes sense). The ones with tubes closer to the outer diameter of a regular pencil are the ones that are hard to rid the tank of.

Was your success with the larger variety vermiteds or the smaller ones?

For every person that claims bumblebee helped, there's 10 other people that spent $300 on bumblebee snails and they did nothing to help. I am one of those 10 people....

14 foot reef · Dec 6, 2022

I'm very happy to say, I put 200 bumble bee snails in my 850 gallon system and they are 100% eating them, they camp out and eat them out of the tube, it will be a long process, but they are working for me.

Sisterlimonpot · Dec 6, 2022

ninjamyst said:
For every person that claims bumblebee helped, there's 10 other people that spent $300 on bumblebee snails and they did nothing to help. I am one of those 10 people....

14 foot reef said:
I'm very happy to say, I put 200 bumble bee snails in my 850 gallon system and they are 100% eating them, they camp out and eat them out of the tube, it will be a long process, but they are working for me.

Just to verify, what size vermiteds are you guys referring to?

14 foot reef · Dec 6, 2022

Mine are all sizes from small to large, coffee stir size and drinking straw size. Hope this helps.

Chris Spaulding · Dec 6, 2022

Bumblebees do work IMO I had a bad problem as well. I added 40 to my 150 gallon and they cleared the tank of most of them. Ay first I did not think they were working . But as time went on there were fewer and fewer. It was a year long process but they did take them out. I think sometimes people expect overnight or over a course of a month to do the trick but in my case it was over the course a year plus.

homer1475 · Dec 6, 2022

I can tell you what I did to rid my tank of them, but I would certainly not recommend anyone try it!

I was up early one morning, and heard a loud pop! Thought my tank broke! Then I saw smoke coming out the doors.

Seems the electrical cord to one of my ATS lights had a split in the sheathing, and touched the water. Shorting out the light, and causing it to smoke a bit. The smoke was certainly in the water in my sump, I could smell it in the display. While I run carbon 24/7/365 I didn't think anything of it, and just left it be. Figured the fresh carbon that I just changed yesterday would take care of the smell. Of course I pulled the plug and light from the sump. LOL

My corals sulked for a couple days, but everything rebounded just fine. Only thing that happened that I could tell, was it killed every single vermetid snail in my tank! This was a few years ago, and I haven't had any since.

ninjamyst · Dec 6, 2022

Sisterlimonpot said:
Just to verify, what size vermiteds are you guys referring to?

I have both the tiny ones and the big big ones

TankCandy · Dec 6, 2022

I power washed my rocks at 4000 psi and it helped a ton. I did it in stages so i didn't cycle my tank.

Charlie the Reefer · Dec 6, 2022

Dkmoo said:
Address the root of the problem - too much dissolved food particles and not enough other types of filter feeders. Stop feeding your corals for a while, they can survive on photosynthesis for a long time.

Get some other filterfeeders, or even more corals, to help compete against it

Get some live rock with sponges to seed and grow sponges. Get a clam, some feather dusters.

If you just focus on removing the worm population without addressing the underlying cause, not only will it be that much harder, but you might also get an even worse filter-feeding pest, like hydroids, that take its spot.

Really interesting points. Instead of focusing on the predator, focus on what competes with them.

Midrats · Dec 6, 2022

homer1475 said:
I can tell you what I did to rid my tank of them, but I would certainly not recommend anyone try it!

I was up early one morning, and heard a loud pop! Thought my tank broke! Then I saw smoke coming out the doors.

Seems the electrical cord to one of my ATS lights had a split in the sheathing, and touched the water. Shorting out the light, and causing it to smoke a bit. The smoke was certainly in the water in my sump, I could smell it in the display. While I run carbon 24/7/365 I didn't think anything of it, and just left it be. Figured the fresh carbon that I just changed yesterday would take care of the smell. Of course I pulled the plug and light from the sump. LOL

My corals sulked for a couple days, but everything rebounded just fine. Only thing that happened that I could tell, was it killed every single vermetid snail in my tank! This was a few years ago, and I haven't had any since.

Electrical fire smoke micro bubbling. Place a limewood diffuser next to the return and burn some wires by the air pump intake!

Biologic · Dec 7, 2022

Bot587 said:
For some reason the quoted line didn’t generate in post. This is in response to the comment on my original post.

Generally true, however in time the bumblebee snails will get them. A long time back (4 years) my tank was covered. Got a couple bumblebee snails when a buddy gave me some gonzos. Over the coarse of a year or two they eliminated all the vermetid snails. I’m by no means saying this as a quick fix, it will take time and I wouldn’t throw a lot in. But, eventually the bumblebee snails will reduce them (just my two cents)

I threw in 15 in a 50 gallon tank. Bumble bee snails are useless in my experience. Strict QT procedures allowing them to never get in the first place is the best way. Otherwise, you have to do drastic things like scorched earth, taking down the tank or using a systemic chemical intervention.

Biologic · Dec 7, 2022

Sisterlimonpot said:
Hmm, this is interesting, about 3 years ago I treated my tank with interceptor for white bugs (very similar to red bugs).

I just looked up if interceptor has ivermectin, and it seems that it does not.

I'm curious, can you share the thread(s) where people discuss it? I can search too but would be better to read the one(s) you're referring to.

Yes Ivermectin (drug) isn't Interceptor (brand) which is Milbemycin (drug). Totally different drugs, but in the same class of broad spectrum antiparasitic.

This guy says he used IVM to kill off, I guess some bugs. He says his tank is basically toxic to inverts. Fine. No Acro eating flatworms either. I can live with that. In all seriousness, you need inverts for a healthy eco system, so removing it out the IVM would be essential.

Not sure what they are doing beyond water changes. I imagine using activated carbon in flowing chamber would be better than just doing water changes alone.