I guess it was wishful thinking. As a r2r member once said to me about aiptasia " they are like the cockroaches of the marine aquarium, nothing can really kill them not even nuclear holocaust, we'll be gone but they will live on" or something to that effect. I will keep doing hand to snail battle until...
Vermetid snails. Is time/stabilty a factor?
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Bfragale
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I agree with all of the above: maturity doesn’t seem to matter. Best solution is management: manual removal when possiable and a large crew of bumble bee snails. This is what I do and keep numbers at bay. The snails will only eat the small ones, and anything reachable I manually remove.
Good luck and happy reefing!
Good luck and happy reefing!
krash7172
Well-Known Member
Not sure if its tank maturity or reef keeper maturity. Once I stopped obsessing with pests, they somehow just kinda went away. Algae, aiptasia, vermetids. If I look hard, I can find them but a balanced tank seems to keep things in check. Maybe that's the key - a balanced tank vs mature tank. Both take time...
I just watched a video on YouTube, not sure how to link it but it was Saltwater Aquarium channel I believe. There were 2 scientists and the host talking about the little known life cycle of this pest. Left scratching my head, with no definitive answer for ridding them.
KrisReef
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I agree with @krash7172 & @Suesea observations that some kind of mysterious balance often makes pest(s) populations move toward low numbers that reduce the problems we see when looking into our reefs. I have no solid reason why, but I have observed the trend repeatedly in my tank and at the LFS I have adopted over the years.
I think it applies to other areas of life as well, as the concept was first pointed out to me at a fire camp when the seasoned crew members were discussing the stages of a fire. The last stage was something like this: "When the management goes home, the fire goes out."
We talk about keeping our hands out of our tanks vs. making changes (often times drastic, removing all rocks, starting over, etc.) It has taken a couple of years for my vermitid snail population (Large bodied spp) to move towards low numbers/negligible irritation to the corals in the tank. Over that time I have done almost nothing, save 2 or 3 "bonecutter" efforts by me and my son (with better eyes) but we no way removed all of these pests. I did add a melanarus wrasse and I have not scraped the coralline algae much or do many water changes, but I did focus on getting parameters to stabilize following equipment fails that made swings happen (and snails flourished).
Recent stability in parameters and the surviving corals are thriving, snails are not noticble but not gone. In the same tank I have had the needle thin hand puncturing spp but those have come and then gone all by themselves?
The most important parameters NO3 and PO4. When they stay put (by the natural functioning of the biological system) and low things thrive.
Long wind, hth.
I think it applies to other areas of life as well, as the concept was first pointed out to me at a fire camp when the seasoned crew members were discussing the stages of a fire. The last stage was something like this: "When the management goes home, the fire goes out."
We talk about keeping our hands out of our tanks vs. making changes (often times drastic, removing all rocks, starting over, etc.) It has taken a couple of years for my vermitid snail population (Large bodied spp) to move towards low numbers/negligible irritation to the corals in the tank. Over that time I have done almost nothing, save 2 or 3 "bonecutter" efforts by me and my son (with better eyes) but we no way removed all of these pests. I did add a melanarus wrasse and I have not scraped the coralline algae much or do many water changes, but I did focus on getting parameters to stabilize following equipment fails that made swings happen (and snails flourished).
Recent stability in parameters and the surviving corals are thriving, snails are not noticble but not gone. In the same tank I have had the needle thin hand puncturing spp but those have come and then gone all by themselves?
The most important parameters NO3 and PO4. When they stay put (by the natural functioning of the biological system) and low things thrive.
Long wind, hth.
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Auquanut
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That seems to be the case for me, although not everyone seems to have the same experience.
It seems like when my tank found it's happy place at about a year old, vermetids, aptasia and even asterina stars started to simply dwindle. I still have them all, just not that you would really notice.
My 265 gallon tank is 10 years old and these suckers have been a part of it for most of those years. Their numbers seem to ebb and flow but I have never found a solid reason for changes There are far too many for manual intervention to take care of, but that doesn't stop me from trying to remove them from easily accessible areas. There is at least some satisfaction in crushing their tubes. They have seemed to be on the down slope recently but I would be hard pressed to attribute it to tank maturity. As others have stated, I have learned to live with them and my goal is to eventually have most of the rock covered with corals, which simply removes their habitat. They do not seem to have any serious detrimental affect on most corals. I have a few bumblebee snails and will add some more to see if it has any affect, as that seems to be the only possible natural predator. In the end, I believe tank balance will help manage them.
I would not quite compare them to aptasia. Both are certainly at the top of the pest list, but there are solutions for aptasia. The only trick is finding the right one for your tank. After much experimentation, my solution was a CBB. The only ones left in the tank are next to my breeding clowns, which will not let him get close enough to take care of the few that remain.
I would not quite compare them to aptasia. Both are certainly at the top of the pest list, but there are solutions for aptasia. The only trick is finding the right one for your tank. After much experimentation, my solution was a CBB. The only ones left in the tank are next to my breeding clowns, which will not let him get close enough to take care of the few that remain.
I think that we're all in agreement that we all have them lol. There are a lot of variables to the lifecycle of these snails, temperature, nutrition, predators-us and bumble bees. Even marine biologists haven't got them completely figured out. Maybe it's just something that we have to live with like dust mites and such and take care of controlling their numbers with our maintenance regime. Yes-no-maybe? ;Bored
H3rm1tCr@b
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I guess depending on how much stuff you have floating around in the water you'll have more or less. Honestly, I like them. They are good detritivores. The more biodiversity, the better as I say!
Wow, I have had these guys since 2011 as my tanks were slowly upgraded and I never thought of them as a problem. Well, I had the little ones since then and the big ones for 2 years.
They aren't super prolific in my tank, which is currently a 90g. I have them here and there. I really only notice the slime if I kick up a lot of detritus. I got the big ones from a pink milli I inherited from a friend. The first one I noticed is still alive in the middle of the colony and the milli is happy to grow all the way up its tube.
I don't dust the rocks or sand (with a turkey baster) in this tank and I feed once per day, 5-6 days a week. I only feed the 5 small fish and not the corals. The tank is packed with coral - I have to scrape montis and leptoseris off the front glass. I'm not really sure if the vermetid snails are that bad if they are in check. What keeps them in check in my tank, who knows. I try to keep a balanced, aged ecosystem with good hitchikers so maybe that's part of it. I have noticed 2 big ones on corals (like, right in the middle of a Stylocoeniella frag but it's happy) and maybe 5 on the front/side glass. I'm sure more are around. I don't have bumblebee snails, but I do have:
Nassarius
Stomatella
Mexican turbos
Zebra turbos
Trochus
Money cowries
Astrea
Chitons
Babylonia snails
Not many of each except the chitons, nassarius, and stomatella which are all breeding. I don't buy snails often because I don't get algae on my rocks or sand. I never see a babylonia on a rock though so I don't think they're responsible.
They aren't super prolific in my tank, which is currently a 90g. I have them here and there. I really only notice the slime if I kick up a lot of detritus. I got the big ones from a pink milli I inherited from a friend. The first one I noticed is still alive in the middle of the colony and the milli is happy to grow all the way up its tube.
I don't dust the rocks or sand (with a turkey baster) in this tank and I feed once per day, 5-6 days a week. I only feed the 5 small fish and not the corals. The tank is packed with coral - I have to scrape montis and leptoseris off the front glass. I'm not really sure if the vermetid snails are that bad if they are in check. What keeps them in check in my tank, who knows. I try to keep a balanced, aged ecosystem with good hitchikers so maybe that's part of it. I have noticed 2 big ones on corals (like, right in the middle of a Stylocoeniella frag but it's happy) and maybe 5 on the front/side glass. I'm sure more are around. I don't have bumblebee snails, but I do have:
Nassarius
Stomatella
Mexican turbos
Zebra turbos
Trochus
Money cowries
Astrea
Chitons
Babylonia snails
Not many of each except the chitons, nassarius, and stomatella which are all breeding. I don't buy snails often because I don't get algae on my rocks or sand. I never see a babylonia on a rock though so I don't think they're responsible.
krash7172
Well-Known Member
When I say "balance" I am thinking more of the entropy of things or mother nature seeking a state reflected by ALL variables involved. Critters, their behavior, growth, state of equipment, owner's behavior, water params, feeding, nutrient export, light, flow, we can go on forever! Any change to any variable and the tank will have to re-balance regardless of age or maturity.
Gudhjem
Community Member
I have a vermitid in one of my tanks that is at least 11 years old. In fact, I think he's my oldest pet. I've decided to leave him be, and never see other vermetids in that tank. He's about half an inch in diameter.
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Auquanut
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Wow! That's big. No problems with it harassing corals?
Gudhjem
Community Member
Yes, it does. He finally beat back the monti that he competed with for many years. But the effect is only the immediate surrounding, and he's in a tank I use as QT, so I don't really need or mind the berth I give him. I'll snap a pic when the lights come on.
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Auquanut
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I think you got the species wrong. That's not a vermetid snail. I believe it's a sea monster! Very rare.Here he is. My math was wrong -- at least 9 years old, not 11.
Shooter6
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Bumblebee snails are your best bet. My current 180g display got them 2+ years ago. They multiplied to the point there wasnt more then 3/4 of an inch between them. There had to be at least 5000 in there. I tried the breaking, glueing and crushing but it didnt help. I bought 6-8,all the lfs had. Each is at most 1/2 inch, but were 1/4inch at the time. I put them in, and didnt notice any change for the first 2 months, then i realize i was down by at least 80%.
By month 4 there was zero vermithids left. That was 2years ago. Not a single one returned. Id say they are 100% effective and recommended
By month 4 there was zero vermithids left. That was 2years ago. Not a single one returned. Id say they are 100% effective and recommended
I let my vermetid population gradually get out of hand over th 6 ears this tank has been running from a live rock start. I have both the small and large ones. I do regular crushes but cannot keep up with them. Even got the point where I was removing rock & coral and crushing them outside the tank.
My back glass is covered in coralline AND vermetids. I am now down to one wrasse Melanurus. Had a Coris pair before. I guess they are helpful in the larval stage.
I have done a month or two of the CaCO3 thing without noticeable change. I now have 18 new bumblebees in there. I hope they are effective as my Berghia nudibranchs turned out to be! But for now, they seem to prefer my sandbed.
My back glass is covered in coralline AND vermetids. I am now down to one wrasse Melanurus. Had a Coris pair before. I guess they are helpful in the larval stage.
I have done a month or two of the CaCO3 thing without noticeable change. I now have 18 new bumblebees in there. I hope they are effective as my Berghia nudibranchs turned out to be! But for now, they seem to prefer my sandbed.
