Versa buildup in tubing?

[Shinister]

Did EcoTech advice to push when using for a cal reactor with the Versa pump?

No.

 

[Shinister]

I reached out to one of EcoTech's support team on Reef 2 Reef on March the 15th in a PM, not even a blink at a reply after a month of waiting for a response. Even at that customer support, I left that pm on the highest regards possible.

I also reached out staight to EcoTech way before that PM, only to get vague answers in their response.

Edit:
So, I was left to do all the research on my own.

To me this entire launch has been using buyers as an mass beta testing group.

There is no other way to explain it.

It seems so. I was very skeptical that such a small pump could be used in continous duty for a calcium reactor. I shouldve waited it out but the things that convinced me to get one were the claims that this pump was tested for several years and made in-house. I didnt think quality control would be an issue. The first one I got was making a grinding noise and leaking from the john guest fittings on the tubing assembly. They sent out a replacement pump and it worked great for a few months but now it wont perform its sole duty to pump water. Too many major problems in a span of a few months. I REALLY wanted this to work. Small form, quiet, precise, and able to perform continuous duty. The app is easy to use and calibration is a breeze. It may work well for normal dosing.

 

[ca1ore]

Did EcoTech advice to push when using for a cal reactor with the Versa pump?

I don't believe they offered an opinion one way or the other.

 

[ca1ore]

MRC CR-6

That's a nice unit. I toyed with it as a replacement for my ProCal before deciding to just make one myself.

 

[Tim at EcoTech Verified Sponsor]

I use my versa by pulling through my calcium reactor. Over the last week, my versa will stop flowing and I would have to run it at 100% to restart the siphon. I don’t know if it’s due to a buildup or just some other issue.

Due to the tubing and cover being clear, there has been a buildup of growth inside my versa tubing. Thankfully I have a ph monitor and trident which allows me to catch it before it drops a whole Dkh point daily before any damage could be done.

Will Ecotech be improving on these units? Seems like a huge design oversight considering these were designed to run calcium reactors.

Any discoloration on the tubing is not the culprit here. We have experience running the Versa on CaRx in pull and push configurations with no discoloration and with discoloration of the tubing, there isn't a relationship that we can determine between it, just individual circumstances.

In fact, its likely any opaque tubing will also get a film inside of it from operation, you just can't see it. The clear tubing in reality is a feature that allows you to see how things are going.

Now, all this being said the Versa is quite a unique pump from any other dosing pump and I believe it's reasonable for us all to discuss its design in figuring out the best way to use it and to get the most from it. We have tested the Versa in a push versus pull configuration and can tell you that you will get about 30-50% of the pumping capacity of the pump in a pull configuration versus a push. When the capacity of the pump to pull is reached, the peristaltic tubing will pinch itself closed under its own vacuum. This is the physics of our pump and has to be considered in applications. It's possible that in your calcium reactor setup you are at the limit of the pump. This is one possible cause for your frustrations.

Can you describe more clearly what happens when the pump stops moving fluid?
Is the rotor still turning?
Is there air in the peristaltic line or is it still 100% filled with liquid?
Does air regularly make its way out of the output line on your calcium reactor?
What is the date of manufacture of your unit?

Providing an answer to these questions will help us help you sort out your issue.

I will say, push is a superior solution in every case. That another pump could have or would have done what you expect it to do is a reasonable thought, but not really relevant considering the Versa is a unique peristaltic pump and has many many benefits and we have to optimize your environment to make sure we are setting the Versa up for success and not failure.

I will also add that I recognize we owe the community an instructional video on best practices and trouble shooting for the Versa. It is in the works.

 

[Shinister]

Now, all this being said the Versa is quite a unique pump from any other dosing pump and I believe it's reasonable for us all to discuss its design in figuring out the best way to use it and to get the most from it. We have tested the Versa in a push versus pull configuration and can tell you that you will get about 30-50% of the pumping capacity of the pump in a pull configuration versus a push. When the capacity of the pump to pull is reached, the peristaltic tubing will pinch itself closed under its own vacuum. This is the physics of our pump and has to be considered in applications. It's possible that in your calcium reactor setup you are at the limit of the pump. This is one possible cause for your frustrations.

Thank you for this info and it explains a lot but was this issue known before launch or discovered afterwards? I would have never purchased this pump if I knew that.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

When the capacity of the pump to pull is reached, the peristaltic tubing will pinch itself closed under its own vacuum. This is the physics of our pump and has to be considered in applications.

This is a trait that isn't unique to the versa, the limitations you describe are inherent to all peristaltic pumps. But for some reason the versa is getting beat up.

 

[Tim at EcoTech Verified Sponsor]

Thank you for this info and it explains a lot but was this issue known before launch or discovered afterwards? I would have never purchased this pump if I knew that.

Shinster- you are not the OP of this thread so I wasn't referring specifically to you. I asked the OP to answer a series of questions that will allow me to best determine what is going on in this use case. If you have a similar use case, then you should answer those questions as well so I can review it.

In general we recommend people push. Using a terminology such as calling this a "known issue" is putting words in my mouth and not helpful. There is no fundamental inconvenience to push through a reactor versus pull, the pump runs better when pushing, there is no need to be frustrated.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Thank you for this info and it explains a lot but was this issue known before launch or discovered afterwards? I would have never purchased this pump if I knew that.

I don't think you should be calling it an issue, but more of an inherent trait of all peristaltic pumps. I remember in 3rd grade an experiment that explained the physics of vacuum (geared towards an 8 yr old mind) the simple experiment had us drink water through a normal straw vs one that was 6 feet long. There was a huge difference, the same thing is happening with your CaRx, I would start checking for restrictions that carry the water from the tank through the CaRx, that would be my first place to look. I definitely wouldn't fault the peristaltic pump off the bat.

I personally have my versa pulling from the CaRx and haven't experienced the issues you have. I also have 2 versas for AWC and there is some film on the clear tubes that may or may not restrict flow, the beauty of the versa is that you can calibrate to overcome some of these inherent limitations.

 

[Shinister]

Shinster- you are not the OP of this thread so I wasn't referring specifically to you. I asked the OP to answer a series of questions that will allow me to best determine what is going on in this use case. If you have a similar use case, then you should answer those questions as well so I can review it.

In general we recommend people push. Using a terminology such as calling this a "known issue" is putting words in my mouth and absolutely not helpful. There is no fundamental inconvenience to push through a reactor versus pull, the pump runs better when pushing, there is no need to be frustrated.

I don't believe I put anything in your mouth. I didn't call it a known issue. I was asking IF this was a known issue. This info along with your recommendation to use it in push config would've been helpful in deciding whether to purchase it.

 

[Tim at EcoTech Verified Sponsor]

I don't believe I put anything in your mouth. I didn't call it a known issue. I was asking IF this was a known issue. This info along with your recommendation to use it in push config would've been helpful in deciding whether to purchase it.

Regardless, I'd like to help you get your pump running. We don't know that this is a push vs pull issue. Could you answer the questions below so I can help you better?

Can you describe more clearly what happens when the pump stops moving fluid?
Is the rotor still turning?
Is there air in the peristaltic line or is it still 100% filled with liquid?
Does air regularly make its way out of the output line on your calcium reactor?
What is the date of manufacture of your unit?

 

[eastamherstbias]

Wow the owner of Ecotech is responding on this. I am shocked and also happy that he cares enough to try to investigate and answer questions. Thats why i love EcoTech. Also, his answers seem reasonable.

Did Scrapz ever answer his questions so he can figure out what is going on? Honestly it seems like many of you are making a lot of noise for no real benefit. Answer Tim’s questions so he can help, or don’t and try a push setup to see if it works better. I’m shocked you guys are behaving so childishly about this.

If it were a Jebao for the same price ($150 is cheap for such a smart pump) youd be extolling its benefits and value regardless of issues and have no one to complain to.

 

[GoVols]

No.

From my experience it's better to push threw a cal reactor than pull.

Because a lot of cal reactors need back pressure (held inside the reactor) from sucking in air, from things like quick connect fittings and your ph probe.

 

[scrapz]

Wow the owner of Ecotech is responding on this. I am shocked and also happy that he cares enough to try to investigate and answer questions. Thats why i love EcoTech. Also, his answers seem reasonable.

Did Scrapz ever answer his questions so he can figure out what is going on? Honestly it seems like many of you are making a lot of noise for no real benefit. Answer Tim’s questions so he can help, or don’t and try a push setup to see if it works better. I’m shocked you guys are behaving so childishly about this.

If it were a Jebao for the same price ($150 is cheap for such a smart pump) youd be extolling its benefits and value regardless of issues and have no one to complain to.

My tank consumes almost 2dkh a day in alkalinity, if it were to fail for 2 days while I'm away. GAME OVER FOR MY TANK. I am here to get answers to mitigate a potential tank crash. This issue has been happening for the last 2 weeks, thankfully with covid, I am at home to catch the problems each time. If my apex logged PH for more than 2 days, I would show you the graph and timepoints of it constantly losing siphon

I dont sit on the forum 24/7 and will answer when I have time, which is now. Except I see this stupid post that I have to reply to which is completely irrelevant to the conversation . Jebao is a ripoff chinese company who steals product designs, is not based in US and does not carry a warranty on their products. Are we comparing companies or are we talking about a potential product issue. Why is this even a topic in the conversation.

Next you want to bring pricing into this which is completely irrelevant to this topic. My concern is RELIABILITY and longevity of this unit. Regardless of the price, I am paying for the reliability of the company name. This was marketed as the next big peristaltic pump for the hobby and I had no issue being a first adopter to test their product. Product reviews (marketing) were being pushed from the "influencers" showing us the construction in house, thousand of hours in runtime test in the lab and great quality control. What happened? Many of us received brick units from oversight of a missing o-ring, lack of quality control testing and quick disbursement of the product. This issue was quickly resolved by their customer service (A+!)

You call our actions childish but you grasp at topics that we arent even discussing here. Question is, do you even own a versa or are you just here to defend as fanboy and not actually bring anything useful to the conversation of improving the product/hobby.

 

[scrapz]

Any discoloration on the tubing is not the culprit here. We have experience running the Versa on CaRx in pull and push configurations with no discoloration and with discoloration of the tubing, there isn't a relationship that we can determine between it, just individual circumstances.

In fact, its likely any opaque tubing will also get a film inside of it from operation, you just can't see it. The clear tubing in reality is a feature that allows you to see how things are going.

Now, all this being said the Versa is quite a unique pump from any other dosing pump and I believe it's reasonable for us all to discuss its design in figuring out the best way to use it and to get the most from it. We have tested the Versa in a push versus pull configuration and can tell you that you will get about 30-50% of the pumping capacity of the pump in a pull configuration versus a push. When the capacity of the pump to pull is reached, the peristaltic tubing will pinch itself closed under its own vacuum. This is the physics of our pump and has to be considered in applications. It's possible that in your calcium reactor setup you are at the limit of the pump. This is one possible cause for your frustrations.

Can you describe more clearly what happens when the pump stops moving fluid?
Is the rotor still turning?
Is there air in the peristaltic line or is it still 100% filled with liquid?
Does air regularly make its way out of the output line on your calcium reactor?
What is the date of manufacture of your unit?

Providing an answer to these questions will help us help you sort out your issue.

I will say, push is a superior solution in every case. That another pump could have or would have done what you expect it to do is a reasonable thought, but not really relevant considering the Versa is a unique peristaltic pump and has many many benefits and we have to optimize your environment to make sure we are setting the Versa up for success and not failure.

I will also add that I recognize we owe the community an instructional video on best practices and trouble shooting for the Versa. It is in the works.

Discoloration is not the issue. It is the buildup of coraline algae within the tubing that eventually restrict the flow that is the issue . It's the exact same reason we prefer PVC overr clear vinyl tubing. Sure we can argue that the rolling action prevent this somehow by crushing it constantly and moving it out of the tubing. Micro pieces could still build up and eventually clog the tubes? Again this is a speculation based on my observation and only time will if I am right or wrong. I just know by looking at my vinyl return tubing that it's time for it yearly change due to coraline buildup.

As far as the push/pull comment. I've run the 3 pumps( kamoer fx-stp, litemeter III and masterflex (borrowed from a buddy) in the same position as the ecotech versa, all in pull configuration for years without issue. This pump ran fine for a month or two becoming the siphon issues started. It definitely had buildup issue as I've had to unplug and blow through the tubes as the other person mentioned here. Before even purchasing this pump, I made sure to check the pull head height (18ft IRRC) and the total length including reactor and lines equated to less than 5ft.

Can you describe more clearly what happens when the pump stops moving fluid?
It just stops working. I know this because I take a look at Apex's PH graph and it just sit flat.

Is the rotor still turning?
Yes it is. In order to restart the siphon I have to manually run it at 100% to reprime the lines.

Is there air in the peristaltic line or is it still 100% filled with liquid?
The intake line is filled 100% with water. The intake line holder is attached to my sump(same position as other pumps) in the last portion where there are little to 0 microbubbles.

Does air regularly make its way out of the output line on your calcium reactor?
No idea, I just look for consistency of droplets vs time.

What is the date of manufacture of your unit?
I'd have to look but its early production as I purchased the unit as soon as it released.

 

[eastamherstbias]

Wow that took a hard and entertaining turn. I did not see you responding to Tims questions. If the owner of a company asked me a question to help me out, I would respond back. It sounds like with Covid you are home doing nothing so why not just respond to him instead of having a tantrum that the versa wronged you. If you require my Ecotech product 411. I have 1- Gen 1, 2- Gen 2, 3- Gen 3 pro, L1 pump, 1 versa , 2 mp40’s and 2 reef links. Take a deep breath and go back to watching your PH graph. Stay safe.

 

[scrapz]

Wow that took a hard and entertaining turn. I did not see you responding to Tims questions. If the owner of a company asked me a question to help me out, I would respond back. It sounds like with Covid you are home doing nothing so why not just respond to him instead of having a tantrum that the versa wronged you. If you require my Ecotech product 411. I have 1- Gen 1, 2- Gen 2, 3- Gen 3 pro, L1 pump, 1 versa , 2 mp40’s and 2 reef links. Take a deep breath and go back to watching your PH graph. Stay safe.

Go away. Literally proved my point. You dont own a versa and listing your ecotech products only proves my point that you are indeed a fanboy.

 

[blstravler]

Go away. Literally proved my point. You dont own a versa and listing your ecotech products only proves my point that you are indeed a fanboy.

Ummm he clearly said he has one...

Any whooo I have 3. Why not cover the pump to stop the coraline from growing? Also once it stops working did you try and push water through just to ensure their is no clog any where? I’m not telling to yo push permanently just to see if there is a clog or build up.

 

[scrapz]

Ummm he clearly said he has one...

Any whooo I have 3. Why not cover the pump to stop the coraline from growing? Also once it stops working did you try and push water through just to ensure their is no clog any where? I’m not telling to yo push permanently just to see if there is a clog or build up.

Well then thats my mistake but still the guy is here to basically fanboy. He's here bringing up completely irrelevant topics to the discussion. We're here to talk versa, not price or competing company.

I am not going to change everything in my setup because 1 variable has changed (versa) is unable to do it's duty correctly vs all the previous pump. It is not losing siphon due to clogging. When I am repriming the line at 100% speed , there is nothing exiting the output line besides liquid.

This isnt the first issue with a Ecotech gen 1 product . How do they fix and improve issues and end up with amazing final product? By customer feedback.

 

[eastamherstbias]

Apparently you missed my list where the versa was listed as a product I own. (see pics). So I am confused by your failure to see it. Anyway, the owner of the company is trying to help you out and get to the bottom of it. Don't be a dick. I am not an Ecotech fan boy, just a fan of good tech. Stay Salty