Very confused on when top off

[JosephM]

As the title states I am very confused on when there needs to be a top off. I think I may have designed my sump a little wonky. There’s basically 3 main compartments. The first is where the overflow drains and that goes through a sock that leads into my main compartment with skimmer and chaeto and then into a bubble trap leading into return chamber. Initially I drew a line at desired height in return chamber and would top off when it fell below it. I soon realized that as my sock gets more clogged the water level falls in my return chamber. I do change out socks when they overflow but the slightest clog rises the level in the sock area and lowers it in the return chamber. I don’t know if this makes sense but any advice or fixes or opinions will be taken.

 

[Red_Beard]

I would suggest measuring salinity under a "normal" full running condition and again under a sump low and clogged condition. If there is deviation you probably waited to long. On my 30 gallon tank before i put in an ATO it was good for a day before changing to much, 2 days of i wanted to push it.

 

[Alchameth]

Yep, measure and mark a waterline in the return pump section. Depending on evap and total water volume, top off daily or so. The less the total water volume the more frequent you should be topping off because even small evap can increase salinity.

 

[Oregon Grown Reef]

If you haven't already, invest in an auto top off. You don't have to worry about marking the sump as you know it will be low when there's an alarm or if you look at the water line and it's below the sensor. It's around $100 for peace of mind and stability that topping off manually can't provide.

 

[JosephM]

Yeah I get all of that but I don’t know how much RO water to add when I have two chambers that have deviating water lines. I have a line drawn in my return chamber but it’s useless if it falls an inch just because my sock is a little clogged.

 

[sde1500]

It should be in your return chamber. I would add a contingency overflow in your sock section, once it clogs, it would re-route the flow from your clogged sock into the middle chamber. This would allow flow to continue at the same rate unrestricted.

 

[Oregon Grown Reef]

Yeah I get all of that but I don’t know how much RO water to add when I have two chambers that have deviating water lines. I have a line drawn in my return chamber but it’s useless if it falls an inch just because my sock is a little clogged.

Okay I think I see what you did in the first chamber. Your water has nowhere to drain other than the filter socks in the first chamber. If they get clogged, then the water level rises in the first chamber. Is there a way you can modify it at this point? There's no good solution here because of the setup. You've forced yourself to have to change out the filter sock every few days. You can try using a different kind of sock. The felt socks catch a lot of stuff, but they clog the fastest.

 

[Oregon Grown Reef]

It should be in your return chamber. I would add a contingency overflow in your sock section, once it clogs, it would re-route the flow from your clogged sock into the middle chamber. This would allow flow to continue at the same rate unrestricted.

^This is what I was referring to when asking if you could modify it.

 

[WVNed]

I would mark 1/2 way between the 2 levels. Clean sock and dirty sock and fill to that level.

 

[Mr.Guy83]

Like others are saying , I would put the measure line in the return side. The clogging filter socks are slowing the flow and the return is putting water back in the tank faster than the water can flow out of the clogged socks.

 

[Alchameth]

If the filter sock is clogged you don't need to add water as the water is still there, just in another chamber. From your picture I can see that when it backs up to just under the black rim it will overflow into the next chamber so that isn't an issue.

Pardon my crude drawing, but maybe this will clarify some things. By moving the fuge to after the filter socks you can increase the water volume of your fugue. Next is the skimmer, by shortening the first baffle between the new skimmer and return chambers you set the water level for your skimmer. It should be around the length for your skimmer operating range, so if that is say 8-9 inches that pane should be 8 inches.

The blue lines represent what the constant water level should be, with the only exceptions being the filter sock (if it clogs and backs up) and return pump (if the filter is clogged or water evaporates) areas. Under this setup the fuge and skimmer sections will remain constant. The green line represents your topoff marker.

So if we take the vertical panes and number them 1-5 starting on the left side.

1 - no change needed
2 - relocate
3 - move over a few inches to allow enough space for skimmer/heater/biomedia
4 - no change needed
5 - remove

2 then becomes 3 but looks like it will need to be shortened some.

Or the very minimal changes would be remove 5 and shorten 3 and get some sort of skimmer stand so it doesn't flood with water all the time. But this will seriously reduce your fuge volume.

 

[Josh@BVA]

Here's what you do.
Step 1: make sure everything is running with new socks return pump on, display tank full and sump JUST ENOUGH SO PUMP ISNT RUNNING DRY.

Step 2: mark where that water line is in ur return pump chamber. THIS IS YOUR MINIMUM WATER LEVEL

Step 3: turn off return pump. Water should drain into sump. This simulates a power outage. Wait until water has stopped flowing into sump

Step 4: once water is no longer flowing into sump, FILL SUMP TO ABOUT 1-2INCHES BELOW TOP. This is now the maximum amount of water ur system can hold and if u have power outage u now know it won't overflow and spill on ur floor

Step 5: turn on return pump. Once everything is flowing as normal mark the water line in the return chamber. This is your maximum fill line. Now whenever ur filling top off u can stay between the max and min lines and not worry about overflow and spills if power goes out.

 

[Red_Beard]

How big is your display? If it is like a 55 or 75 or bigger you may be worried over nothing, it does take a quart or more to make any appreciable difference with that much volume which i bet is more than what you get backed up in the socks. And if you do end up adding a bit extra fresh water because it was clogged when you topped off and then you changed socks and it is now over full by a few cups of r/o, dont panic. Just let it evaporate. Let it swing to a worst case scenario and measure your salt content. The only way you are going to get peace of mind is to actually measure it. Then you know how far you can go and how much difference there actually is.

 

[JosephM]

It is a 29 gallon DT with 20 gal fuge.

If the filter sock is clogged you don't need to add water as the water is still there, just in another chamber. From your picture I can see that when it backs up to just under the black rim it will overflow into the next chamber so that isn't an issue.

Pardon my crude drawing, but maybe this will clarify some things. By moving the fuge to after the filter socks you can increase the water volume of your fugue. Next is the skimmer, by shortening the first baffle between the new skimmer and return chambers you set the water level for your skimmer. It should be around the length for your skimmer operating range, so if that is say 8-9 inches that pane should be 8 inches.

The blue lines represent what the constant water level should be, with the only exceptions being the filter sock (if it clogs and backs up) and return pump (if the filter is clogged or water evaporates) areas. Under this setup the fuge and skimmer sections will remain constant. The green line represents your topoff marker.

So if we take the vertical panes and number them 1-5 starting on the left side.

1 - no change needed
2 - relocate
3 - move over a few inches to allow enough space for skimmer/heater/biomedia
4 - no change needed
5 - remove

2 then becomes 3 but looks like it will need to be shortened some.

Or the very minimal changes would be remove 5 and shorten 3 and get some sort of skimmer stand so it doesn't flood with water all the time. But this will seriously reduce your fuge volume.

This would work well except my second baffle doesn’t full cross the sump it is more just to hold bio in place. But I see what you were trying to do.

I would mark 1/2 way between the 2 levels. Clean sock and dirty sock and fill to that level.

Yeah I think this is the way to go. One other person said something about putting in a brand new sock and mark that level and then a clogged one and mark that and then mark right in the middle. So I can adjust water level to desired return chamber along with slight fluctuations in sock chamber

 

[JosephM]

It should be in your return chamber. I would add a contingency overflow in your sock section, once it clogs, it would re-route the flow from your clogged sock into the middle chamber. This would allow flow to continue at the same rate unrestricted.

How could I accomplish this? I understand what you’re saying but what can I put in there or build for that. And will it defeat the point of a sock being there to catch stuff? Even with the sock out the water line remains slightly above the sock holder. I suppose I didn’t cut big enough lines through the baffle to let as much water through.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

Yeah I get all of that but I don’t know how much RO water to add when I have two chambers that have deviating water lines. I have a line drawn in my return chamber but it’s useless if it falls an inch just because my sock is a little clogged.

Th is is exactly why you need an auto top off. It takes all this thinking out of the picture and does it for you. Stop making th is more complicated then it is

 

[JosephM]

Th is is exactly why you need an auto top off. It takes all this thinking out of the picture and does it for you. Stop making th is more complicated then it is

It is a little more complicated when there’s two chambers with fluctuating water lines. If my sock chamber gets clogged and rises an inch and my return chamber falls an inch because of that I can’t just dump some RO in because there’s still the same amount of water in the system it’s just been placed elsewhere.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

It is a little more complicated when there’s two chambers with fluctuating water lines. If my sock chamber gets clogged and rises an inch and my return chamber falls an inch because of that I can’t just dump some RO in because there’s still the same amount of water in the system it’s just been placed elsewhere.

IMO yes you can and it eventually works it’s way out. It’s the same way with my system. I use 2 klir 7 and they operate same as your socks. When they are clogged water in the tray builds up. When this happens it takes away water from return chamber causing water to be low so ato adds water. Now when klir turns on it advances fleece and now water drops in tray causing water in return chambers to now be high. This is no big deal cause over next few hours the water just evaporated out and we are back where we started. One would think this will cause huge change in salinity but actually does not at all because it is done over many hours of time as your sock gets clogged. Like I said your over complicating it

 

[((FORDTECH))]

Added picture of my sump above

 

[JosephM]

IMO yes you can and it eventually works it’s way out. It’s the same way with my system. I use 2 klir 7 and they operate same as your socks. When they are clogged water in the tray builds up. When this happens it takes away water from return chamber causing water to be low so ato adds water. Now when klir turns on it advances fleece and now water drops in tray causing water in return chambers to now be high. This is no big deal cause over next few hours the water just evaporated out and we are back where we started. One would think this will cause huge change in salinity but actually does not at all because it is done over many hours of time as your sock gets clogged. Like I said your over complicating it

Okay yeah I see what you’re saying. And it doesn’t take much water away. Maybe a quart or two max when it’s fully clogged but the closer I can get to maintaining a close to perfect salinity the better. And I probably am overthinking as well because I’m only teenager and have invested a lot of money and just bought 40lbs of KP rock coming in this week or next and want my tank to be as suitable for that as possible.