Very confused

[pdiehm]

As many may know, my tank is at the end of the initial cycle. We know that a tank never truly stops cycling, but it does become self supportive (for lack of a better term) to an extent.

My ammonia, nitrite are both zero. Reading a multitude of Randy's posts, I have stopped testing for nitrites as my reading isn't anywhere near toxic. Nitrates, are the confusing part. I can't really get an accurate reading because quite frankly the color chart tests suck. The companies think you get one of 8 readings in most cases, and I use it as a guide more than anything, but then I have to estimate the number.

Right now my plan is to do 20-25 gallon water changes twice a week once I get my clean up crew today. Hopefully the nitrates get down under 20.

When you set up a tank, you spend a lot of patience getting nitrifying bacteria, and at the end you want the denitrifying bacteria. I'm not entirely sure how the denitrifying bacteria form, and maybe that's what someone meant when they told me last night that nitrates will drop to 0 on their own.

with my snails and 2 hermits, I have diatoms, but i also figure to feed them twice a week, which I assume means dropping some food into the tank, or tossing in an algae sheet or wafers.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Nitrates need to be exported. That can be accomplished in a number of ways.

1. Water changes
2. Skimmer (the toilet of your tank)
3. Carbon dosing (vodka, vinegar, biopellets, sugar) where the bacteria that grow (and consume nitrates) are removed by your skimmer
4. Algae growth (chaeto and caulerpa are two common algaes) where the algae is harvested removing the nitrates used to "fertilize" the algae
5. Denitrifier (where bacteria consume methanol and convert nitrate to nitrogen gas)
6. And possibly others that aren't immediately coming to me because I haven't had my second cup of coffee yet!

 

[pdiehm]

I get all that. I think what threw me for a loop was when I was told that a cycle isn't complete until nitrates are at 0, but you don't do any water changes because it prolongates the process. When I read that, it blew my mind because it contradicted everything I've read in Randy's nitrate article.

So essentially, long story short is that my planned approach is proper. Manage with water changes, skimming, and using some sort of dosing (ex: AZ-No3, vinegar, etc) to consume the nitrates in the water.

My immediate concern is how quickly the snails react negatively to the nitrates (30-50ppm estimate). I have roughly 40 gallons of saltwater marinading (115 gallon total system volume).

 

[redfishbluefish]

So essentially, long story short is that my planned approach is proper.

Sounds like you have a great plan.


"marinating".......had a good chuckle.

 

[JimWelsh]

I think what threw me for a loop was when I was told that a cycle isn't complete until nitrates are at 0....

Where is this silly idea coming from? I've seen a few users show up on this forum recently with this nonsense in their heads. Good for you, for using critical thinking, and questioning that.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Here's one of many graphs you can find online that show nitrate isn't going to zero during ordinary cycling:

from:
http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/The_Nitrogen_Cycle

 

[pdiehm]

See, I do read! as i posted back to the guy, what he said, goes against everything I have read (your articles).

 

[reefingnoob]

Never heard that before! (Nitrate going to zero during cycling)

 

[beaslbob]

the denitrifying bacteria are low (anoxic) to very low (anaerobic bacteria) which reduce nitrates. Working well they reduce nitrates to nitrates and then to nitrogen gas. Other bacteria (not working well) reduce nitrates to nitrItes and then back to ammonia. And creates nasties as well.

It is entirely possible to have no nitrates during the initial cycle but rare. Nitrates do usually spike and in a balanced system drop down with no water changes.

there are three ways from what I hear aquarium lower nitrates.
1) exporting through water changes.
2) reducing through anoxic/anaerobic bacteria
3) recycling nitrates to fish food and oxygen through algae like turf, corraline, and macros.

I prefer the later as it also consumes phosphates and carbon dioxide returning fish food and oxygen. algaes also export nitrates and lotsa other stuff when you harvest the algae.

But that's just my .02

 

[pdiehm]

Good news. Added the snails and crabs to the 2 tanks and as far as I can tell everything is still alive.

I'm actually looking into getting a clip on light for above the middle section of my sump, and throwing a ball of chaeto in there. Think the plan is to spend like $15 for the light and bulb, and get a timer. Won't be a great deal of light, but from what I understand chaeto doesn't need a lot of light.

 

[redfishbluefish]

There's nothing wrong with an inexpensive clip-on with a CFL bulb.....grows chaeto just fine

 

[Downbeach]

+1 I used a 100W(equivalent) 6500K CFL successfully on a fuge, when I had one.

 

[pdiehm]

got 25 gallons ready to go into the tank today. Tested nitrates at approximately 64ppm yesterday. Equates to about a 21.7% water change, so if my math is right, nitrates should be down to around 50 after the change.

Will set up another 25 gallons to be done on Monday, and again next friday. If my math is right, nitrates should be about 30ppm after next friday's water change.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

FWIW, most nitrate kits won't be accurate or precise enough to see those changes exactly.

 

[pdiehm]

No, but I should see a difference in color (in theory).

Like I just did a 50% change in the biocube. Nitrates were estimated to be 16ppm per Red Sea Nitrate Pro test kit. "In Theory" they should be 8ppm.

key words in theory. All I can do is keep doing what I'm doing, which I'll be doing, that's for sure.