Vibrant Killing Corals..

[DSEKULA]

Interesting thread, I've never used vibrant specificly but my experience in general with bacteria type products is that you should always start with a much lower dose than manufacturers recommendations to see how your tank reacts. Usually if it's a weekly recommendation I try about an eighth and work up weekly while watching the tank. I always dose bacteria while the lights are on so carbon dioxide doesn't build up unexpectedly and when trying a new product generally run an air stone just in case some extra oxygen is taken up.

 

[TX_Punisher]

Odd. I’ve heard some tales similar to yours mainly in sps tanks. I’ve used it before to wipe out bubble algae. Had to dose 18ml twice per week for 3 months and do not recall losses. Just eradication of the bubbles.

I just dosed 10ml today in fact a year later. Will be watching my nutrients. My orp didn’t move from 392.

 

[King Turkey]

from my understanding it is bottle bacteria. no diff than Dr. Tim's waste away. the reason it kills algae is it is making a super low nutrient environment. having dosed Dr. Tim's and Vibrant I see no distinction between the two. The issue at hand usually is the tank is environmentally suitable to grow algae. When people see corals die it could be that the swing from high phosphate and nitrate to super low or zero can shock corals and kill them. Hard to say. but, in my experience dosing bacteria does not directly kill coral. Generally I have noticed that a Dino bloom that goes undetected is the cooperate behind the deaths. I would examine the tank and how you care for it to better understand the real problem. NO bottle of product will cure a issue in a Reef tank. good husbandry usually trumps all. not to grip or protest to how anyone's tank is cared after, but just my two cents from my own experience. happy reefing

 

[heliguy71]

My tank is over 5 years old and had a bubble algae problem.i used vibrant for 3 to 4 weeks and it killed it all.but i kept dosing once a week for a maintenance dose,and the last dose 24hrs later killed most of my lps and i think i will lose more.can anything save my corals.alot of water changes and amino acids maybe.

 

[MnFish1]

My tank is over 5 years old and had a bubble algae problem.i used vibrant for 3 to 4 weeks and it killed it all.but i kept dosing once a week for a maintenance dose,and the last dose 24hrs later killed most of my lps and i think i will lose more.can anything save my corals.alot of water changes and amino acids maybe.

I would check your numbers (assume they are ok) - I would use carbon - in case there are some toxins released from your dying LPS - and water changes - not sure I would do anything with amino acids

 

[Midrats]

This stuff did take out my Valonia, but every time I dose it, within an hour, all of my corals shrivel up, and stay that way for a day or two. I think I will skip today's scheduled dose, and all future dosing.

 

[Texas Rick]

What vibrant are you using. There are a few vibrant products. I use vibrant for reef safe and I haven’t had any issues. Been dosing for a few months for algae. It keeps it at bay but doesn’t totally kill it. It also keeps my GHA from coming back.

 

[vetteguy53081]

My tank is over 5 years old and had a bubble algae problem.i used vibrant for 3 to 4 weeks and it killed it all.but i kept dosing once a week for a maintenance dose,and the last dose 24hrs later killed most of my lps and i think i will lose more.can anything save my corals.alot of water changes and amino acids maybe.

Water change and carbon. I always dose at 80% of recommended dosage

 

[Gordonm]

I understand your positive experience with vibrant but that in no way means that the product can’t have negative effects in others systems. From my research online and messages from others I know I’m not the only one who has lost corals after addition of vibrant.

The only variable on my established reef is the addition of vibrant, that is the variable. I’m not guessing if it was the only change in the system, I know for a FACT it was the only change. I test my system daily for nitrate/phosphate and have the trident for ca/alk/mg. I double check those measurements weekly with salifert. So anything I can test for I test for. In this data their is no outlier, no swings except the orp.

People seem very quick to blame end users when they have had success with a product but others have had issues.

As for scientific testing, underwater creations(creator of vibrant) don’t have any literature on there site of independent scientific studies of the product. They only have end user reviews. They don’t even have any independent guarantee of analysis of what you’re getting in the bottle. You’re just taking their word for it on the breakdown. I’m sure this is likely common among most additive companies.

At the end of the day all I want is to provide data/information to other users/potential users. I don’t want anything from the creators of vibrant. I have sent water samples out so hopefully I’ll have even more data in a week or so to share. I’m happy for people that have had great experiences with the product, I don’t doubt their claims of positive experiences, so it’s a little disheartening to see a negative experience not get the same kind of respect. I’m just trying to give others a heads up that something negative may happen in your reef.

My regards to your loved ones....right.

 

[carmodpg]

I can tell you that I just had a similiar experience. I was trying to get rid of a little red turf algae. So I dosed vibrant. The first week I did not notice any ill effects. However, the second week my sps started to brown while others rtn'd. I immediately stopped dosing. As others in the post, I did not change anything else. I also test my phosphates every morning and they did not bottom out. I got an ICP test and everything was in-line. I did about 3 30-40% water changes, but the sps kept browning and rtn'ing. I lost a good portion of it. There are some that are still brown trying to regain some color. I dosed some Red Sea trace elements (especially Iodine and Iron) to try to get some of the colors back. All in all it was a disaster that I am still fighting.

 

[MnFish1]

I can tell you that I just had a similiar experience. I was trying to get rid of a little red turf algae. So I dosed vibrant. The first week I did not notice any ill effects. However, the second week my sps started to brown while others rtn'd. I immediately stopped dosing. As others in the post, I did not change anything else. I also test my phosphates every morning and they did not bottom out. I got an ICP test and everything was in-line. I did about 3 30-40% water changes, but the sps kept browning and rtn'ing. I lost a good portion of it. There are some that are still brown trying to regain some color. I dosed some Red Sea trace elements (especially Iodine and Iron) to try to get some of the colors back. All in all it was a disaster that I am still fighting.

I think the issue is probably the 'dose' - I.e. using too much. When Algae 'dies - or is dying' - almost by definition has to cause some toxin/ammonia release - I lost all my SPS - and my soft corals all closed up - some for months - now things are stable - The only parameter I noted that was 'off' was my nitrate rose to over 150. Now - I dont know if I can blame this on the product - because I did overdose (I used the higher recommended dose) - and I dosed it for the total volume of the tank and sump. I used Freshwater vibrant - and the next day 2 discus were on the floor (has never happened before - and never again) - whether it was an oxygen problem - or a chemical problem (there was quite a bit of hair algae in that tank - I dont know - or it could have been a coincidence. But - it really worked on the hair algae

 

[austibella]

Oh I almost forgot, it also wiped out my coraline algae the was along the back of the tank. Went from being a really nice pink/red to brown to gone. So far corals that’s don’t seem to be bothered are my hammer, zoas, palys, acans.

So sadto hear..... i use Vibrant every week to kill bryopsis that got in my tank. Your nutrients wil go up fast!.do water changes every week.then as Vibrant again after water change
.I also run carbon and phosphate reactor, UV and Bio Churn. keep skimmer running wet you will have to empty it every day sometimes few times a day. blow off your corals and rocks with a powerhead then blow towards overflow to get all the dead algae out of the tanks change with clean socks every day .Vibrant cleaned out my Bryopsis it works great! You have go get the nutrients out of the tank or the nutrients will harm your corals

 

[kecked]

Just curious. I used 1ml in 30 gal tank with 10gal sump and it killed all montiporia red cap in 4 hours. Bleached totally. This was a test tank with sand bottom. The was nothing in there. I didn’t bother testing and took the tank down and never used vibrant again. This was a test to see if it might help a Dino outbreak in the main tank. This was two years back. Btw just did the recommended nutrient elevation and dinos are in my rear view mirror. So I wonder since this kills algae if it also can enter a coral and kill off the zoa living in the coral hence. Sudden bleaching. Some coral have a better slime layer than others and might be able to exclude the vibrant bacteria. Mabye others can not do this or are less healthy and have Thinner layer. Just a theory.

another thought is there are dinos present that when they die they release endotoxins. That’s a real stretch but another possibility. I tried to measure this using raman sers de sorbet sample from carbon and saw nothing. Was looking for coolia toxin at the time. Definitely found it in the main tank sample.

 

[arking_mark]

Oh I almost forgot, it also wiped out my coraline algae the was along the back of the tank. Went from being a really nice pink/red to brown to gone. So far corals that’s don’t seem to be bothered are my hammer, zoas, palys, acans.

Did anything change with your lighting? Coraline algae goes away with high PAR lighting.

 

[brandon429]

If peroxide use had this much loss ratio in 2010 it would have never gained the traction it has.


I can’t find seven pages of stated losses in literally any peroxide thread seen on the entire internet including Troylees which is fifty pages of randomly adding it into reef tank display water.

peroxide has about a .1% offense rate per scanned pages.

that being said, vibrant has the best cure rate for valonia ever seen in the hobby, pick your battles. Peroxide use is absolutely not associated with coral loss.

yes I’m aware of outlier reports, are there seven pages worth we can see as a link though...no, they’re real stat outliers is why

 

[MattW33]

Hi everyone,
Wanted to provide a update. I got my results back from ICP-Analysis yesterday. Everything is fine except low Iodine and Br. I will post a screenshot of it here. So nothing sticks out for something being contaminated in my tank/etc. At this point my belief is something in the bacteria of vibrant had a drastically negative effect on my corals causing a lot of death and damage. Since my last posts it seems the remaining corals are okay. I've been running carbon and doing water changes. A very expensive lesson for me and all I would tell others is be careful using this product. Almost forgot to say, interestingly it's been almost a year since my last testing and not much has changed which is good. I really wanted to try and test every 3 months. BTW the post office lost my triton test that I sent out at the same time. I was really hoping to compare those results. Good thing I sent out two different samples at least!

I'm curious, when you last did an icp, what was your iodine level? Do you dose iodine or do you use water changes to maintain levels? I ask because after a year of battles in my tank I tentatively attributed my coral losses to low iodine. As soon as I brought levels up, everything got better. Low iodine wouldn't kill in 24 hours, but a in few weeks it's possible.

It may well be vibrant, but if your corals don't pick up I'd look into other options.

 

[Cell]

There is clearly other factors at play when some can double dose with no ill effects and some, such as the OP, can put a drop in and apparently nuke a tank.

My experience with Vibrant was good. I did accidentally double dose the very first time I used it and didnt have to clean my glass for a week. No issues.

 

[taricha]

another thought is there are dinos present that when they die they release endotoxins. That’s a real stretch but another possibility. I tried to measure this using raman sers de sorbet sample from carbon and saw nothing. Was looking for coolia toxin at the time. Definitely found it in the main tank sample.

hijacking the discussion - sorry! I'd love details on this.
I remember when you said you went looking for toxins in the GAC but found nothing.
I did not recall you detecting the toxins in a tank sample (of water? of brown dino material?)
how did you release the material for your sample from GAC?

 

[shred5]

from my understanding it is bottle bacteria. no diff than Dr. Tim's waste away. the reason it kills algae is it is making a super low nutrient environment. having dosed Dr. Tim's and Vibrant I see no distinction between the two. The issue at hand usually is the tank is environmentally suitable to grow algae. When people see corals die it could be that the swing from high phosphate and nitrate to super low or zero can shock corals and kill them. Hard to say. but, in my experience dosing bacteria does not directly kill coral. Generally I have noticed that a Dino bloom that goes undetected is the cooperate behind the deaths. I would examine the tank and how you care for it to better understand the real problem. NO bottle of product will cure a issue in a Reef tank. good husbandry usually trumps all. not to grip or protest to how anyone's tank is cared after, but just my two cents from my own experience. happy reefing

I just saw in another thread a few weeks a go where someone had it analyzed it is not bacteria it is a algaecide.

Use of Vibrant

Was curious how many people use Vibrant in their tank. I was thinking about using it and wanted to know some pros and cons you have experienced with it.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[kecked]

hijacking the discussion - sorry! I'd love details on this.
I remember when you said you went looking for toxins in the GAC but found nothing.
I did not recall you detecting the toxins in a tank sample (of water? of brown dino material?)
how did you release the material for your sample from GAC?

I reply off thread