Vibrant - What is it actually?

[Dan_P]

My guess is that it a combination product: algicide and endospores.

The algicide would explain the damage done to coral and supports the claim of rapid clearing of water. I also read about Mr. X (secondhand information) having seen a chemical analysis of Vibrant. The structure resembled an algicide.

The bacteria content is extremely difficult to demonstrate. I have not seen oxygen uptake, amino acid metabolism or phosphate consumption like I have with other products. @taricha fed full strength bacteria medium to Vibrant but I don’t recall if that was enough to wake up the endospores.

 

[hasireefz]

There was large thread speculating the 3.5% was algeacide in API algeafix , dimethyliminoethylene dichloride, ethoxylate

 

[burningmime]

Yeah ok, I have post-graduate degrees in science but your post is so compelling I‘m going to suggest people drink bacterial products. /sarcasm

Since some folks apparently need this, please DO NOT DRINK FISH TANK BACTERIAL ADDITIVES.

So you're saying I shouldn't serve my famous Gin-n-Dr-Tims at my next party?

 

[taricha]

@taricha fed full strength bacteria medium to Vibrant but I don’t recall if that was enough to wake up the endospores.

New saltwater enriched with bacterial growth medium (LB broth + glucose) did grow a strong cloudy bacterial bloom from a newly opened bottle of vibrant, (and every other product I checked), but not distilled water. So I guess I can say it contains more viable bacteria than distilled water.

 

[Kayvon]

Seems like dinos + water to me.

 

[taricha]

To @Dan_P point, even though it contains bacteria, consider the fact that identifying the type might just be a red herring if the main mode of action is not bacterial, but chemical.

Also there's the way it totally seizes up a hanna PO4 test. At 4mL Vibrant / L of SW, the hanna PO4 test can't be measured because it forms a precipitate. The precipitate has the slight blue color normally expected from the test that sinks to the bottom. My guess is this has to do with the "water clarifying" action of the product. Obviously not active bacterial effect.

 

[Ardeus]

There are many reports of deaths of snails and urchins, which are more easily relatable to an algaecide than to bacteria consuming the algae.

I have a tuxedo urchin that feeds exclusively on coraline algae and although he is still alive, he's not ok, he's lethargic and sometimes falls.

I wonder what effect does carbon have on Vibrant and if there's something that accumulates in systems without water changes.

The instructions don't recommend the removal of GAC or GFO, which would indicate that there's more than bacteria in Vibrant.

On the other hand, they don't recommend turning off the skimmer or UV which doesn't make much sense if you're dosing bacteria.

I did an ICP test shortly before I started dosing Vibrant in January and I will do another when I finish in about 2 months. In total I will have dosed 32 oz in my 200 gallon tank.

 

[RyanS]

There are many reports of deaths of snails and urchins, which are more easily relatable to an algaecide than to bacteria consuming the algae.

I have a tuxedo urchin that feeds exclusively on coraline algae and although he is still alive, he's not ok, he's lethargic and sometimes falls.

I wonder what effect does carbon have on Vibrant and if there's something that accumulates in systems without water changes.

The instructions don't recommend the removal of GAC or GFO, which would indicate that there's more than bacteria in Vibrant.

On the other hand, they don't recommend turning off the skimmer or UV which doesn't make much sense if you're dosing bacteria.

I did an ICP test shortly before I started dosing Vibrant in January and I will do another when I finish in about 2 months. In total I will have dosed 32 oz in my 200 gallon tank.

Giving consideration to accounts like this and the other fears about handling of the bacteria, sounds to me like there should be a MSDS for microbial cultures sheet. However, there is not that I have seen. Thus why it's left up to us to investigate.

We should always know what chemicals or bio cultures we're handling. If we don't, then we don't know what level of safety precautions to take in handling or storage.

 

[RyanS]

To @Dan_P point, even though it contains bacteria, consider the fact that identifying the type might just be a red herring if the main mode of action is not bacterial, but chemical.

Also there's the way it totally seizes up a hanna PO4 test. At 4mL Vibrant / L of SW, the hanna PO4 test can't be measured because it forms a precipitate. The precipitate has the slight blue color normally expected from the test that sinks to the bottom. My guess is this has to do with the "water clarifying" action of the product. Obviously not active bacterial effect.

So... Hanna Po4 testing is can't be measured or is not valid if you use Vibrant???

 

[Loosechangereef]

I use Vibrant on a 50 gallon aio tank with sps tank, works for me , i dose once a week , took about 2.5 to 3 months and small bubble algae 99% gone, Note: i do keep my alk low 7 to 7.5, i do watch my phosphates and nitrates dont want a bottom out

 

[BeardedDragon21]

Then why vinegar?

Could be a stabalizer? Something to limit bacterial growth post bottling to extend shelf life until introduced to a more suitable environment ie tank?

 

[RyanS]

Could be a stabalizer? Something to limit bacterial growth post bottling to extend shelf life until introduced to a more suitable environment ie tank?

That amount of vinegar listed would bring the ph of di water down to at least ~3.5.

Lowering ph can inhibit/prevent bad bacteria such as Clostridium butyricum and Clostridium baratii .

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

lol hope you have permission form the makers of vibrant @UWC

Why would one need permission to test or publish the results of a product that they purchased?

answer: they don't

 

[UWC]

Hey All,

I will not go into details about the bacteria strains, but will touch on a few points that have been brought up about things people seem to be confused by. For those that are really curious, there are some pretty in depth videos on Youtube where people have cultured out the bacterias.

Vinegar - Vinegar is used as a preservative in the bottle.

3.5% Other Ingredients - This is just RO/DI water

Why can you run GAC and GFO? - Algae's can contain many contaminants, toxic metals, etc. Using GAC can help absorb these. GFO can be used as needed to keep nutrients under control.

Why can you continue to use your protein skimmer and UV? - We tested for a long time with both UV and no UV systems and the results were always the same. We found that having a UV running did not affect the way Vibrant performed. Same thing for running a protein skimmer - A protein skimmer does not affect the way Vibrant performs.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Why does it matter what’s in it? Will your research prevent you from using it in the future? Is the cost so high that you’ll try to make your own home brew? Will you be an advocate for the product if you learn it contains something you appreciate?

You apparently have a whole different life perspective than I and most scientists do

I hardly even know where to begin to respond to that.

Knowing what something is and how and where it works and when and how it fails, are certainly important attributes for knowing if something is a suitable product for any given reef tank.

If a person has a rash, and a cream says it cures rashes, is just using it because it "works" the best plan? What if the rash is caused by scarlet fever and the cream is meant to treat poison ivy?

 

[Ardeus]

Hey All,

I will not go into details about the bacteria strains, but will touch on a few points that have been brought up about things people seem to be confused by. For those that are really curious, there are some pretty in depth videos on Youtube where people have cultured out the bacterias.

Vinegar - Vinegar is used as a preservative in the bottle.

3.5% Other Ingredients - This is just RO/DI water

Why can you run GAC and GFO? - Algae's can contain many contaminants, toxic metals, etc. Using GAC can help absorb these. GFO can be used as needed to keep nutrients under control.

Why can you continue to use your protein skimmer and UV? - We tested for a long time with both UV and no UV systems and the results were always the same. We found that having a UV running did not affect the way Vibrant performed. Same thing for running a protein skimmer - A protein skimmer does not affect the way Vibrant performs.

Thank you very much for the information. It makes sense that the bacteria should not be affected by the use of GAC and GFO.

But how come the bacteria aren't affected by UV?

Many organisms aren't killed by the UV but have their genetic material altered enough so they can't multiply. Is this the case with the bacteria in Vibrant? They don't multiply in the tank and only have their genetic material damaged by the UV but are still able to function normally?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thank you very much for the information. It makes sense that the bacteria should not be affected by the use of GAC and GFO.

But how come the bacteria aren't affected by UV?

Many organisms aren't killed by the UV but have their genetic material altered enough so they can't multiply. Is this the case with the bacteria in Vibrant? They don't multiply in the tank and only have their genetic material damaged by the UV but are still able to function normally?

Benthic bacteria (those attached to surface) are generally not impacted much by UV. The claim (presumably) isn't that they are not killed if they pass through it, but that not enough pass through it to prevent the effect.

 

[taricha]

So... Hanna Po4 testing is can't be measured or is not valid if you use Vibrant???

doubt it. I think hanna PO4 works just fine at normal vibrant concentrations.
I just noticed at that higher 4mL / L concentration (to try to see if there is notable PO4 in it - like there was in another product) that it interferes in that unusual way.

 

[Fish_Sticks]

Vibrant: "Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun." **

** Any resemblance to a Big Mac is purely coincidental.

Was gonna post krabby patty secret formula, but could be mcdonalds too. Good point.

 

[KGV]

There are many reports of deaths of snails and urchins, which are more easily relatable to an algaecide than to bacteria consuming the algae.

I have a tuxedo urchin that feeds exclusively on coraline algae and although he is still alive, he's not ok, he's lethargic and sometimes falls.

I wonder what effect does carbon have on Vibrant and if there's something that accumulates in systems without water changes.

The instructions don't recommend the removal of GAC or GFO, which would indicate that there's more than bacteria in Vibrant.

On the other hand, they don't recommend turning off the skimmer or UV which doesn't make much sense if you're dosing bacteria.

I did an ICP test shortly before I started dosing Vibrant in January and I will do another when I finish in about 2 months. In total I will have dosed 32 oz in my 200 gallon tank.

I previously suggested that it contains bacillus bacteria. These release hydrolytic enzymes that help to break-up sludge. But these are also bad for other organisms that live on detritus. This is the same as for Dr Tim's re-fresh and waste-away. These also contain a warning that overdosing can kill CUC.