Vinegar dosing droping ph low

[xiholdtruex]

The pH of seawater with an alkalinity of 7 dKH in contact with normal CO2 air levels will be pH 8.1 to 8.2, so it is not causing the low pH and raising the alk a little won't have much impact.

Im thinking it may be a co2 issue within my house, do you recommend any affordable co2 meters to measure the co2 within my home to see if it is a determining factor?

 

[arking_mark]

The pH of seawater with an alkalinity of 7 dKH in contact with normal CO2 air levels will be pH 8.1 to 8.2, so it is not causing the low pH and raising the alk a little won't have much impact.

Your pH is pretty much determined by your tank's effective CO2. See...

Aquarium pH Distilled

I just wanted to share my understanding of reef pH which is mostly based on: Low pH: Causes and Cures by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com Many would agree that reef tanks can be successful with pH between 7.8 – 8.5 NBS and daily swings as great as 0.5 NBS. Natural pH levels in our ocean...

www.reef2reef.com

If your tank's effective CO2 is around 1000matm (probably common for indoor tanks), you would need an Alk level of about 18dKH to have a pH of 8.2 and 13.5dKH for a pH of 8.1. Alks at this level aren't usually stable in our reef tanks. Hence why some reefers work to get lower CO2 air exchange with their tank (outdoor or CO2 scrubbed air). There are also other techniques for raising pH.

 

[arking_mark]

Im thinking it may be a co2 issue within my house, do you recommend any affordable co2 meters to measure the co2 within my home to see if it is a determining factor?

Also, don't discount pH measurement error. Your pH may be fine....

 

[xiholdtruex]

Also, don't discount pH measurement error. Your pH may be fine....

This is another thing that I am questioning lol I calibrated my pH probe when I installed the scrubber Thursday. Tested it against my salifert test and they were spot on. The salifert test accuracy is .2+/- yep the probe is .01+/- so I'm more inclined to believe the probe. But the probe and test are matching so I second guess it lol

Only thing I was thinking is maybe getting a American marine pinpoint meter and using it as a control.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Im thinking it may be a co2 issue within my house, do you recommend any affordable co2 meters to measure the co2 within my home to see if it is a determining factor?

That is the usual cause of low pH, but you do not need a meter to diagnose it. Just do the aeration test:

pH And The Reef Aquarium
http://www.reefedition.com/ph-and-the-reef-aquarium/

The Aeration Test

Some of the possible causes of low pH listed above require an effort to diagnose. Problems 3 and 4 are quite common, and here is a way to distinguish them. Remove a cup of tank water and measure its pH. Then aerate it for an hour with an airstone using outside air. Its pH should rise if it is unusually low for the measured alkalinity (Figure 2). Then repeat the same experiment on a new cup of water using inside air. If its pH also rises, then the aquarium’s pH will rise simply with more aeration because it is only the aquarium that contains excess carbon dioxide. If the pH does not rise in the cup (or rises very little) when aerating with indoor air, then that air likely contains excess CO2, and more aeration with that same air will not solve the low pH problem (although aeration with fresher air should). Be careful implementing this test if the outside aeration test results in a large temperature change (more than 5°C or 10°F), because such changes alone impact pH measurements.

 

[xiholdtruex]

That is the usual cause of low pH, but you do not need a meter to diagnose it. Just do the aeration test:

pH And The Reef Aquarium
http://www.reefedition.com/ph-and-the-reef-aquarium/

The Aeration Test

Some of the possible causes of low pH listed above require an effort to diagnose. Problems 3 and 4 are quite common, and here is a way to distinguish them. Remove a cup of tank water and measure its pH. Then aerate it for an hour with an airstone using outside air. Its pH should rise if it is unusually low for the measured alkalinity (Figure 2). Then repeat the same experiment on a new cup of water using inside air. If its pH also rises, then the aquarium’s pH will rise simply with more aeration because it is only the aquarium that contains excess carbon dioxide. If the pH does not rise in the cup (or rises very little) when aerating with indoor air, then that air likely contains excess CO2, and more aeration with that same air will not solve the low pH problem (although aeration with fresher air should). Be careful implementing this test if the outside aeration test results in a large temperature change (more than 5°C or 10°F), because such changes alone impact pH measurements.

ran the skimmer line outside, running to a co2 scrubber and then to the skimmer. still getting low ph reading 7.4 and a light on reading from 7.5 -7.6
checked my probe against a salifert test and a hanna ph pen and they are all reading the same as my probe

I also have a air pump with two airstones within my sump that if I shut off it drops the ph to 7.3


Had sometime with the tank tonight so I grabed some tank water at 7.5 ph starting and aerated for a hour outside and the cup of water is reading 7.91 after aeration.

Brought the cup inside and aerated it from 7.91 ph it droped down to 7.51 ph looks like its a issue with my inside air.

other than pulling outside air , aerating the house and running a co2 scrubber is there any other suggestions? I also run kalkwasser drip in my tank.

 

[arking_mark]

ran the skimmer line outside, running to a co2 scrubber and then to the skimmer. still getting low ph reading 7.4 and a light on reading from 7.5 -7.6
checked my probe against a salifert test and a hanna ph pen and they are all reading the same as my probe

I also have a air pump with two airstones within my sump that if I shut off it drops the ph to 7.3


Had sometime with the tank tonight so I grabed some tank water at 7.5 ph starting and aerated for a hour outside and the cup of water is reading 7.91 after aeration.

Brought the cup inside and aerated it from 7.91 ph it droped down to 7.51 ph looks like its a issue with my inside air.

other than pulling outside air , aerating the house and running a co2 scrubber is there any other suggestions? I also run kalkwasser drip in my tank.

Something isn't right...7.5 ph w/ a 7.2 dKH aeration test would put your effective CO2 at 2450matm...which is 2527ppm for you air making your indoor air very bad.

I'm pretty sure your air isn't that bad...so I'm very suspect of your numbers.

 

[arking_mark]

Messed up the #s a little...these are correct:

Your indoor air can't be that bad...so again I suspect the measurements.

 

[xiholdtruex]

Messed up the #s a little...these are correct:

Your indoor air can't be that bad...so again I suspect the measurements.

That would not be good at all in CO2 numbers.

Do think the probes and testers can be wrong?
I second guess probes and testers when everything else looks good.

Is there one you would recommend?

 

[fachatga]

If your aeration test showed that your outside air made your ph higher and your using that plus a scrubber I doubt your ph is really that low. I’m thinking testing error. Have you tried not recalibrating but just testing your probe in a calibration solution?

 

[xiholdtruex]

If your aeration test showed that your outside air made your ph higher and your using that plus a scrubber I doubt your ph is really that low. I’m thinking testing error. Have you tried not recalibrating but just testing your probe in a calibration solution?

Yes I have and calibrated twice they are reading in 7ph 7.01 and in the 10 pH it was reading 9.6 prior to calibration. After calibration everything was reading spot on this was 2 weeks ago when I added the scrubber

 

[arking_mark]

That would not be good at all in CO2 numbers.

Do think the probes and testers can be wrong?
I second guess probes and testers when everything else looks good.

Is there one you would recommend?

I'd expect most outdoor aeration pH tests should be between 8.1 and 8.2 NBS.

I'm not sure why your getting what you're getting with a properly calibrated pH meter.

 

[xiholdtruex]

I'd expect most outdoor aeration pH tests should be between 8.1 and 8.2 NBS.

I'm not sure why your getting what you're getting with a properly calibrated pH meter.

your guess is as good as mine lol I was thinking of trying another option , which would be having a airpump outside or figuring out how to run a fresh air line to a air pump and use it to pump outside air into the airstones. all the airpumps I have have bottom air holes, maybe I can drill a hole in the side and seal the hole in the bottom. its a option im kicking around in my head.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The pH rise was quite large using outdoor air, which is a certain indication that the tank has a lot of excess CO2 in it. Then it dropped again using inside air, which again is a certain indication that a big source is the home air.

It is possible the while thing is a tiny bit skewed to read lower than it is, but not by much. Not by more than 0,2 pH units, or else the outside measurement would not have gotten as high as it did. It may be exactly correct.

 

[fachatga]

I’ll try again. Any idea can maybe help. My ph was never that low but now is higher that I figured out my salinity was much lower than I thought. Using the right amount of salt mix fixed a few things that were a bit off. My calibration fluid I bought apparently was way off. When I used a hydrometer and mixed Randy’s mixture for calibration I was stunned how bad it was. If you’re using a refractometer and purchased calibration fluid I’ll tell anybody to mix their own mixture to calibrate it from what happened to me. Might be worth a try.

 

[Pistondog]

Something isn't right...7.5 ph w/ a 7.2 dKH aeration test would put your effective CO2 at 2450matm...which is 2527ppm for you air making your indoor air very bad.

I'm pretty sure your air isn't that bad...so I'm very suspect of your numbers.

Only way to know co2 level is to measure.
I have one of these

And measure 1100 to 2000 ppm when windows are closed for 6 or more hours, 1500 Sq ft. X 2 with basement. High side with more bodies.
With windows open, 4 to 450 ppm. I have not independently verified the measurements, other than the 4 to 450 ppm matches the outside ambient levels.
@arking_mark co2 calculated numbers may be within 20%.

 

[xiholdtruex]

Definitely curious as to my co2 levels in my house but based on all these numbers its a little alarming for my family.

For the time being im opening the windows to air out the house a few times a day.

I am trying something out im not sure how much it will help but its worth a try. I grabed my 100g air pump and took it apart. sealed the bottom inlet and drilled a new inlet at top and routed the house from outside air to this inlet. lets see how it goes.

 

[Pistondog]

Definitely curious as to my co2 levels in my house but based on all these numbers its a little alarming for my family.

For the time being im opening the windows to air out the house a few times a day.

I am trying something out im not sure how much it will help but its worth a try. I grabed my 100g air pump and took it apart. sealed the bottom inlet and drilled a new inlet at top and routed the house from outside air to this inlet. lets see how it goes.

We might all be alarmed if we measured. I do open the windows more.
Your situation is not unusual, unless you are living with 12 people in a small apartment.

 

[xiholdtruex]

We might all be alarmed if we measured. I do open the windows more.
Your situation is not unusual, unless you are living with 12 people in a small apartment.

ended up picking up a co2 meter and it was reading at 1700 with 2 people in the house. I opened two window across the house and turned on the ceiling fans and within a hour it droped to 667.

I added a co2 scrubber to the line my airpump is drawing from also lets see how that helps.

 

[Pistondog]

ended up picking up a co2 meter and it was reading at 1700 with 2 people in the house. I opened two window across the house and turned on the ceiling fans and within a hour it droped to 667.

I added a co2 scrubber to the line my airpump is drawing from also lets see how that helps.

Better to draw from outside, but scrubber is better than nothing. I started that way but media depleted too quickly.