Vinegar dosing in fw

Dvt81 · Oct 25, 2019

Hello all.

You guys have been great on a few previous posts Ive made.

I know many aquarists start in FW then jump over to the SW world so hoping some can maybe share some info.

I have bought some white distilled vinegar. I know many SW people use this to dose their tanks to help with nitrates and phosphates.

What does vinegar dosing do in FW and why isn't it something that's done? What would the harm be if I tried it in my peacock tank?

My African peacocks tank is 1300L, I have all but 7 of the peacock species in my tank... That's the aim tank filled with all male peacocks.

It is over stocked so I want to prevent the issues before they arrive.

I have just installed these anoxic baskets in my aquarium yesterday so hoping these do work in few months time

I run carbon,purigen, matrix, bio media, pumice and pothos plants in the sump.

So my tank is the biggest it can be for the space I have but I know it's already way overstocked.

Solo in a nutshell... The chemistry of vinegar dosing in FW if anyone knows?

Much appreciated

Dvt

Quietman · Oct 25, 2019

I've dosed carbon in freshwater but that was for plants and not as means of nutrient control through bacteria populations (then skimming) as in reef tank. Skimming will not work in freshwater due to water properties not allowing the bubble formation.

Unfortunately, if your tank is overstocked in the short term, there's not a much you can do other than water changes. Hopefully the media addition will go quicker than expected.

Halal Hotdog · Oct 25, 2019

In saltwater the key with vinegar dosing (carbon dosing) is to have a skimmer that can pull out as much of the bacteria as possible so it is true nutrient export. In freshwater if you could increase the concentration of nitrifying bacteria the only way to remove them would be with water changes, cannot use a protein skimmer. With freshwater doing water changes is significantly easier and you do not require RO/DI water. IMO the best way is just doing regular large water changes. The key with that is making it as easy as possible. Having larger holding tanks and pumps that allow dumping and filling to be painless.

Albert Bazaar · Oct 25, 2019

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Dvt81 · Oct 25, 2019

Ok... A product you SW guys maybe familiar with is aquaforest no pro and pro bio s and are a form of carbon dosing.. Both suitable for FW and in effect what comes off of this is collected by mechanical filtration in FW ( as described by the manufacturer). This got me thinking... If this can be captured by mechanical filtration then why wouldn't vinegar dosing be captured by The same mechanical filtration in FW ?

Am I reading between the lines?

Albert Bazaar · Oct 25, 2019

Dvt81 said:
Ok... A product you SW guys maybe familiar with is aquaforest no pro and pro bio s and are a form of carbon dosing.. Both suitable for FW and in effect what comes off of this is collected by mechanical filtration in FW ( as described by the manufacturer). This got me thinking... If this can be captured by mechanical filtration then why wouldn't vinegar dosing be captured by The same mechanical filtration in FW ?

Am I reading between the lines?

When the bacteria get done with it which is usually quickly.The end product detritus is mechanically filterable.

Halal Hotdog · Oct 25, 2019

Dvt81 said:
Ok... A product you SW guys maybe familiar with is aquaforest no pro and pro bio s and are a form of carbon dosing.. Both suitable for FW and in effect what comes off of this is collected by mechanical filtration in FW ( as described by the manufacturer). This got me thinking... If this can be captured by mechanical filtration then why wouldn't vinegar dosing be captured by The same mechanical filtration in FW ?

Am I reading between the lines?

With mechanical filtration it can be possible to remove some of the bacteria. The issue being the nitrifying bacteria vary in size, and only the very large will typically get captured. You could always run a very fine sock (1 micron) but you would probably be changing it a couple times per day, and you have to make sure the entire tanks volume is going through it. If it gets filled then water starts overflowing and efficiency drops to zero. It is doable but probably more headache than it is worth.

Dvt81 · Oct 25, 2019

So would the dosing of vinegar be the same in FW as it is in SW? 5ml per 100 gallons?

And use that as my basis?

Halal Hotdog said:
With mechanical filtration it can be possible to remove some of the bacteria. The issue being the nitrifying bacteria vary in size, and only the very large will typically get captured. You could always run a very fine sock (1 micron) but you would probably be changing it a couple times per day, and you have to make sure the entire tanks volume is going through it. If it gets filled then water starts overflowing and efficiency drops to zero. It is doable but probably more headache than it is worth.

SeaDweller · Oct 25, 2019

I think carbon dosing first started in FW systems for fish farms.

Halal Hotdog · Oct 25, 2019

Dvt81 said:
So would the dosing of vinegar be the same in FW as it is in SW? 5ml per 100 gallons?

And use that as my basis?

The recommendations are based on trial and error from individuals. Basically you want to start small and work your way up. Doing too much in a short period of time will drop pH as well as cause a bacterial bloom that can deplete the O2 in the water. I don't think there will be any issue with you starting at 5ml/100 gallons.

Dvt81 · Oct 25, 2019

Filter foam or foam pad between the baffles would take care of most of the detritus?

Dvt81 · Oct 25, 2019

Here is a wee pic of my tank and sump

SDK · Oct 25, 2019

I Kept Africans for decades and still love them. Large water changes will serve you better than vinegar dosing. Get a python to make it easy on yourself and do a weekly or bi weekly 75 water change.

The reason that you don’t see things like carbon and vinegar dosing in the FW world is because it’s so much quicker, easier and less expensive to just do water changes....

Dvt81 · Oct 25, 2019

The python is great ( I don't own one) but my nearest tap is one of these fancy ones and it won't fit on the tap. I use a pump to get water in and out and it's a bloody pain!

SDK · Oct 25, 2019

You can get a garden hose adaptor that attaches directly to the the water pipes under the sink. It’s a lifesaver for big water changes and stays out of sight..

They also make a rubber slip fitting adapter that slides over just about and faucet and comes back off when you are finished.

Dvt81 · Oct 25, 2019

SDK said:
You can get a garden hose adaptor that attaches directly to the the water pipes under the sink. It’s a lifesaver for big water changes and stays out of sight..

They also make a rubber slip fitting adapter that slides over just about and faucet and comes back off when you are finished.

My tap is slim and rectangular!

SDK · Oct 25, 2019

Then you would want the one that ties right into the 1/2 copper pipe

Tastee · Oct 27, 2019

Another option is AWC. I am personally considering running a DOS controlled by my SW tank Apex to perform an AWC on the small FW planted tank I keep. I could either change in RODI and dose nutrients or I could keep a large dechlorinated reservoir of tap water and change that in.

At the moment although the FW tank is small and cheap compared to the 65g reef tank it actually requires more hands on maintenance and WCs are the biggest part of that.