Vinegar Dosing questions.

[Uzair Aiman]

Hi everyone,
Right now I have high nitrates (around 50ppm) and low phosphates (around 0.1ppm). The phosphates might be a false reading since my tank is now filled with green hair algae (which Ive been trying to remove). I remove them manually when doing water changes weekly, and they still grow back up on the rocks and some frags.
Ive been thinking of dosing vinegar (I have the Heinz all natural white distilled vinegar 5% on hand) as to reduce nitrates and phosphates. My tank is around 1 year old, 25 gallons in size of display volume (its an AIO) and I have a Bubble Magus QQ Protein skimmer (cause I know I need to oxygenate my tank when carbon dosing, also need to remove the nitrates and phosphates).
Is there a specific guideline that I can follow? Also, lets say I want to reduce my nitrates to 5ppm or something, after dosing a specific amount daily, when I reach said number, how do I keep it there? Do i reduce the dosage in half? Or shall I still keep dosing the same amount or do I just stop dosing right away?

Im quite paranoid and afraid that I would literally strip everything from my tank and cause catastrophe.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Hi everyone,
Right now I have high nitrates (around 50ppm) and low phosphates (around 0.1ppm). The phosphates might be a false reading since my tank is now filled with green hair algae (which Ive been trying to remove). I remove them manually when doing water changes weekly, and they still grow back up on the rocks and some frags.
Ive been thinking of dosing vinegar (I have the Heinz all natural white distilled vinegar 5% on hand) as to reduce nitrates and phosphates. My tank is around 1 year old, 25 gallons in size of display volume (its an AIO) and I have a Bubble Magus QQ Protein skimmer (cause I know I need to oxygenate my tank when carbon dosing, also need to remove the nitrates and phosphates).
Is there a specific guideline that I can follow? Also, lets say I want to reduce my nitrates to 5ppm or something, after dosing a specific amount daily, when I reach said number, how do I keep it there? Do i reduce the dosage in half? Or shall I still keep dosing the same amount or do I just stop dosing right away?

Im quite paranoid and afraid that I would literally strip everything from my tank and cause catastrophe.

This is a good article

Reefkeeping Magazine - Vinegar Dosing Methodology for the Marine Aquarium

Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for the marine aquarist.

reefkeeping.com

 

[Uzair Aiman]

This is a good article

Reefkeeping Magazine - Vinegar Dosing Methodology for the Marine Aquarium

Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for the marine aquarist.

reefkeeping.com

thanks a lot! Do you have any other advice if you’ve experience in dosing vinegar?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hi everyone,
Right now I have high nitrates (around 50ppm) and low phosphates (around 0.1ppm). The phosphates might be a false reading since my tank is now filled with green hair algae (which Ive been trying to remove).

That doesn't make a reading false any more than corals taking up a nutrient might also make it "false". It is simply the case that a static measurement doesn't say anything about the rate of turnover of the nutrient.

IMO, the ramp up in vinegar concentration in the posted article is unnecessarily slow, and you can raise the dose faster if you want.

IMO, vinegar dosing has multiple benefits that also include more particulate foods (bacteria) for filter feeders.

I'd suggest either dosing using a dosing pump spread through the day (not night) or saturated the viengar with calcum hydroxide for manual dosing without the accompanying pH drop. I've done both a both work, but dosing pump is a bit preferable, IMO, to spread out the O2 consumption.

 

[NowGlazeIT]

That doesn't make a reading false any more than corals taking up a nutrient might also make it "false". It is simply the case that a static measurement doesn't say anything about the rate of turnover of the nutrient.

IMO, the ramp up in vinegar concentration in the posted article is unnecessarily slow, and you can raise the dose faster if you want.

IMO, vinegar dosing has multiple benefits that also include more particulate foods (bacteria) for filter feeders.

I'd suggest either dosing using a dosing pump spread through the day (not night) or saturated the viengar with calcum hydroxide for manual dosing without the accompanying pH drop. I've done both a both work, but dosing pump is a bit preferable, IMO, to spread out the O2 consumption.

You recommend vinegar dosing during the day time, may I ask why? If ph commonly drops during the day, won’t the vinegar drop the ph further?

 

[Uzair Aiman]

That doesn't make a reading false any more than corals taking up a nutrient might also make it "false". It is simply the case that a static measurement doesn't say anything about the rate of turnover of the nutrient.

IMO, the ramp up in vinegar concentration in the posted article is unnecessarily slow, and you can raise the dose faster if you want.

IMO, vinegar dosing has multiple benefits that also include more particulate foods (bacteria) for filter feeders.

I'd suggest either dosing using a dosing pump spread through the day (not night) or saturated the viengar with calcum hydroxide for manual dosing without the accompanying pH drop. I've done both a both work, but dosing pump is a bit preferable, IMO, to spread out the O2 consumption.

Is making 2 half doses during the morning and mid-day okay? Cause I do not have concentrated vinegar and calcium hydroxide, and I do not have the space or budget for a dosing pump. How much ramping up should I do before anything bad happens? I was planning to do the dosing according to the table stated since I'm afraid that I would crash my tank.

 

[Uzair Aiman]

You recommend vinegar dosing during the day time, may I ask why? If ph commonly drops during the day, won’t the vinegar drop the ph further?

If I'm not mistaken, pH drops during the night, not day. But I'm a beginner so dont take my word for it. Maybe Randy knows more than I do.

 

[taricha]

You recommend vinegar dosing during the day time, may I ask why? If ph commonly drops during the day, won’t the vinegar drop the ph further?

because it's the opposite, pH will normally increase during daylight hours.
digestion of a carbon dose consumes some O2 and lowers pH. The photosynthetic activity during the day does the opposite of both of those: produces O2 and raises pH.
(the O2 is rarely a concern unless the carbon dose is extreme and the aeration is insufficient.)

 

[NowGlazeIT]

because it's the opposite, pH will normally increase during daylight hours.
digestion of a carbon dose consumes some O2 and lowers pH. The photosynthetic activity during the day does the opposite of both of those: produces O2 and raises pH.
(the O2 is rarely a concern unless the carbon dose is extreme and the aeration is insufficient.)

Thank you I guess I had it all backwards. I thought ph dropped during the day as the house got busy with all the animals and kids running around. I assumed because they were active during the day, that they were producing more c02 within the home.

 

[JGT]

Many people have followed the below table for vinegar dosing successfully:

 

[NowGlazeIT]

Im lovin all the help thank you everyone

 

[NowGlazeIT]

Many people have followed the below table for vinegar dosing successfully:

Wow so people increase as they go hmm, I feel like I’ll bottom out if I increase. I’ve been at 30ml since the start on my 120g

 

[JGT]

That doesn't make a reading false any more than corals taking up a nutrient might also make it "false". It is simply the case that a static measurement doesn't say anything about the rate of turnover of the nutrient.

IMO, the ramp up in vinegar concentration in the posted article is unnecessarily slow, and you can raise the dose faster if you want.

IMO, vinegar dosing has multiple benefits that also include more particulate foods (bacteria) for filter feeders.

I'd suggest either dosing using a dosing pump spread through the day (not night) or saturated the viengar with calcum hydroxide for manual dosing without the accompanying pH drop. I've done both a both work, but dosing pump is a bit preferable, IMO, to spread out the O2 consumption.

As far as a slow ramp up time, you don’t see any issues doing the ramp up quickly and causing a sudden drop in your nitrates? Would it be more of an issue the other way around, ie nitrate spike?

 

[JGT]

Wow so people increase as they go hmm, I feel like I’ll bottom out if I increase. I’ve been at 30ml since the start on my 120g

Yes, and once you see your nitrates start to decline, you will continue that same dose and not ramp up anymore, dosing once per week. Then once you are at your ideal nitrate level, you will cut that dose in half and it will be your maintance dose. You will only dose once per week.

 

[NowGlazeIT]

Yes, and once you see your nitrates start to decline, you will continue that same dose and not ramp up anymore, dosing once per week. Then once you are at your ideal nitrate level, you will cut that dose in half and it will be your maintance dose. You will only dose once per week.

Daaaang only once?? I’ve been at it daily for over a year hah

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

I can't believe ppl dose vinegar these days.
D

 

[Rmckoy]

While increasing dosed amounts while mpre
Bacteria colonizes .
I have seen the effects of dosing carbon to a point where everything bottoms out . But it’s normally nitrates that hit zero
Once one is zero , the only way to drop the other is to increase the zero value

I see carbon dosing as playing with fire
It works , but can get out of hand fast .
Depending on how old and mature the system is . There are many other ways to export nutrients .

some might not work for every scenario but even something as little as adding nitrifying bacteria .
being mindful of what’s being fed and how much .
improving nutrient export methods to match the input

balance and stability is key !

 

[JGT]

I can't believe ppl dose vinegar these days.
D

And for the alkies in the group:

 

[Uzair Aiman]

While increasing dosed amounts while mpre
Bacteria colonizes .
I have seen the effects of dosing carbon to a point where everything bottoms out . But it’s normally nitrates that hit zero
Once one is zero , the only way to drop the other is to increase the zero value

I see carbon dosing as playing with fire
It works , but can get out of hand fast .
Depending on how old and mature the system is . There are many other ways to export nutrients .

some might not work for every scenario but even something as little as adding nitrifying bacteria .
being mindful of what’s being fed and how much .
improving nutrient export methods to match the input

balance and stability is key !

By “getting out of hand”, do you mean the tank crashes? ie the corals and fish die? Or does it just become a stagnant tank with no growth at all? (Making importing nutrient a necessity)

 

[Rmckoy]

By “getting out of hand”, do you mean the tank crashes? ie the corals and fish die? Or does it just become a stagnant tank with no growth at all? (Making importing nutrient a necessity)

Once you reach your desired nutrient level .
sometimes stopping carbon dosing will result In a very heavy thick Cyanobacteria which can be near impossible to get rid of .
even though all nutrients and parameters test well . It’s very easy to over dose .
always start slow and less then full dose

If it’s possible . I would research different possible ways to achieve the same goal before beginning carbon dosing