Vinegar, Phosphates and Algae Reduction

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

This has me stumped as well....

no3 0 po4 0

have the same green slime with a dash of some brown hairy cyano ish looking stuff. i had dosed dr tims for a bacteria source and ive heard that that or vinegar can cause that brown hairy cyano looking stuff.

Are you asking about your tank?

In general, any time you have a problem algae, you can be assured that there is adequate N and P for it to grow, no matter what a kit might say, and in many (but not all) cases, you can reduce N or, more often, P, and stop the algae without hurting other organisms.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

is it possible we have too much of a bacterial population??

Like cyano? Sure. Folks often have too much cyano. Other bacterial overpopulations are uncommon and usually the result of adding a lot of organic matter. They are usually white. Any other color is usually cyanobacteria, or a different organism such as algae, diatoms, dinoflagellates, etc.

 

[nebraska dreamin]

i guess my question is when you dose things like bacteria or vodka and nopox since cyano is a bacteria does that increase that population of bacteria or just the nitrafying kind of bacteria

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

i guess my question is when you dose things like bacteria or vodka and nopox since cyano is a bacteria does that increase that population of bacteria or just the nitrafying kind of bacteria

Carbon dosing doesn't generally increase nitrifying bacteria since those do not generally consume organics. It will increase lots of different species that do consume organics, potentially including cyanobacteria but certainly is usually other species.

When you dose actual bacteria, you of course get what you add, but it isn't generally clear what types of bacteria are alive in those products.

Unless one of these happens to be a disease-causing bacteria, there isn't likely a drawback to having them, and there may be positives, such as feeding filter feeders, including corals.

 

[nebraska dreamin]

Ok thats what I was wondering. Thanks Randy!

castaway- good luck w your green stuff. Im going to give NoPoX a shot and see what happens. Keep us posted on your progress w vodka dosing

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Ok thats what I was wondering. Thanks Randy!

You're welcome.

Happy Reefing.

 

[CastAway]

Ok thats what I was wondering. Thanks Randy!

castaway- good luck w your green stuff. Im going to give NoPoX a shot and see what happens. Keep us posted on your progress w vodka dosing

I am very pleased with the results from dosing vodka! Green stuff is all but gone.

I was in my LFS this weekend and happened to read the back of the Red Sea product, methanol and acetic acid.

Isn't this kind of like vodka and vinegar?

 

[nebraska dreamin]

correct. from my understanding it is like dosing a carbon source but also giving the whole process jet fuel. ive started very slow at .5 ml a day and im seeing the green slime starting to disappear. I like it as the dosing is easy and straight forward and how little you have to use.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Vinegar is 5% acetic acid. I thought the Red Sea product NOPOX also contained ethanol (vodka is 40% ethanol), but some products may use methanol (which is like ethanol but a little smaller).

 

[CastAway]

So is it just more "concentrated"? Is the basic method the same - to increase bacteria and thereby out compete algae for nutrient take up?

 

[nebraska dreamin]

So is it just more "concentrated"? Is the basic method the same - to increase bacteria and thereby out compete algae for nutrient take up?

Im no expert but maybe not more concentrated but much more efficient. from what ive read it sounds like there are some metabolic supporting agents there (if you could word it that way) so it seems more of what I would call a "bio available" fuel source?? maybe...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Im no expert but maybe not more concentrated but much more efficient. from what ive read it sounds like there are some metabolic supporting agents there (if you could word it that way) so it seems more of what I would call a "bio available" fuel source?? maybe...

I don't believe those marketing claims, but Red Sea does make a claim like that.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So is it just more "concentrated"? Is the basic method the same - to increase bacteria and thereby out compete algae for nutrient take up?

Not really any more concentrated. If you mix one part vinegar (5% acidity) to one half part vodka (80 proof) and one half part water, you'll have the primary ingredients in NOPOX, as per the analysis done about a year ago.

 

[nebraska dreamin]

I don't believe those marketing claims, but Red Sea does make a claim like that.

I would definitely agree that it is marketing, which obviously worked on me! it may be the special sauce it may not. but so far i like the results and red sea does a great job at taking the guess work out of it, which as a hobbyist I wanted something that was clear and straight forward, which it delivers on that front

 

[nebraska dreamin]

Not really any more concentrated. If you mix one part vinegar (5% acidity) to one half part vodka (80 proof) and one half part water, you'll have the primary ingredients in NOPOX, as per the analysis done about a year ago.

no guess work there! be interesting to see if someone makes this and it works as well as the red sea product

 

[CastAway]

Well, coming up on two months of vodka dosing, 6ml per day, 3 in the am and 3 in the pm.

Algae issue in the display has been addressed.

I have increased my feeding for my SPS's sake, trying to actually raise my NO3 and PO4 a little bit.
I've seen reduced growth of macro algae, primarily caulerpa brachypus, in my refugium.
My skimmate is much wetter, much lighter, and I have adjusted slightly to compensate.
I still have some less desirable micro algae in the refugium, and have done some manual removal.
I do frequently have a very faint while bacterial film on my glass - three days between cleanings.

All-in-all, I am very satisfied with the vodka results. I will now begin to reduce my daily dose, and let the pendulum swing a little bit the other direction.
It seems to me, in my relative ignorance, that the balance between nuisance algae and thriving SPS is found somewhere between heavy feeding and a LOT of nutrient export. Seems contradictory, but....

 

[nebraska dreamin]

It seems to me, in my relative ignorance, that the balance between nuisance algae and thriving SPS is found somewhere between heavy feeding and a LOT of nutrient export. Seems contradictory, but....

I would totally agree. Since I last posted on here, carbon dosing just wasnt doing it for me. so I added an algae scrubber. now that fixed the problem for about a week. then it came back. It dawned on me that lower nutrients obviously killed that algae and cyano but when those types of organisms die off they release the po4 and no3 back into your water column. So i lowered my feeding to lower nutrients again and as soon as it satarted to die off I did a 20% water change, and then 3 days later did another one. I slowly over the span of a couple weeks increased my feedings so my acros werent so pale anymore and have not had an issue since. I also added a marine pure bio block to my sump. I purchased a gfo reactor in case i needed it, its still in the box