vodka dosing without skimmer?

Jcon82 · Sep 12, 2022

Hi All,

I'm struggling with high nitrate and phosphate (25ppm n03 .5ppm p04) in my 40 breeder. I've been doing 20% water changes weekly and that hasnt lowered it much. I want to start dosing carbon via vodka but do not have a skimmer. Will this be an issue? I'm using a Tidal 55 HOB that has a little skimmer section but probably isn't doing much.

Spare time · Sep 12, 2022

A protein skimmer is required. Your HOB filter has a surface skimmer, which is not the same thing. Carbon dosing causes bacterua to grow, assimilate the carbon, nitrate, and phosphate into their biomass and then be removed by the skimmer. Without the skimmer, you will likely just induce a bacterial bloom. Tropic marin supposedly has one that works without it but I'd be cautious.

olonmv · Sep 12, 2022

Give this a read….no skimmer needed.

Poor Man's Nutrients Control - Donovan's Nitrate Destroyer

Hello fellow reefers!. I have been in the hobby for more than 3 years, the first 2 years was tough. Cyno, diatom, nuisance algae, high NO3 (120ppm at one time) and ich/velvet. I have tried several nutrient control method (poor man, so most of it were DIY project). GFO, water fall scrubber...

www.reef2reef.com

Reab · Sep 12, 2022

I wouldn’t recommend it without a skimmer as you’re not going to really accomplished anything. You will feed bacteria growth, numbers will go down, food for bacteria falls, bacteria dies off, numbers back up. There has to be a way to remove the bacteria to export the nutrients.
I would suggest trying to find the source of the nutrients. Are you feeding too much, are you not doing enough water changes, what is the condition of your rock, is it leeching nutrients, is there die off of anything, is your tank detritus free, where is the tank placed and what is around it. When I was in an apartment I had to put my cats litter boxes in the same room. I didn’t realize it was causing an issue until I sent an icp test in and it pegged my no4 at 500. No wonder my test kit was being inconsistent.

Jcon82 · Sep 12, 2022

Spare time said:
A protein skimmer is required. Your HOB filter has a surface skimmer, which is not the same thing. Carbon dosing causes bacterua to grow, assimilate the carbon, nitrate, and phosphate into their biomass and then be removed by the skimmer. Without the skimmer, you will likely just induce a bacterial bloom. Tropic marin supposedly has one that works without it but I'd be cautious.

OK so based on your recommendation carbon dosing is not an option until I get a skimmer. Unfortunately a skimmer and/or sump are not in the cards for a while. What are my other options?

Reab · Sep 12, 2022

One other thing to mention for removing bacteria

Jase4224 · Sep 12, 2022

Keep your system clean, vac sand during water changes, toothbrush your rocks before water changes and don’t feed more than your fish actually eat. Also avoid over stocking. A bit of micro Bacter Clean can help keep the system clean.

A pic and more info on your system would help.

ReefGeezer · Sep 12, 2022

Reab said:
One other thing to mention for removing bacteria

What pump would you use to create that sort of "low pressure? Would it need to be some sort of piston or diaphragm pump? What happens to the bound nutrients when the bacteria "burst"?

Reab · Sep 12, 2022

Powerfilter

The power filter, is one of the fundamentals of the DSR method. It is just a a name for a strong pump with filter wool on the intake. It removes annoying small particles and clouding from the water, which prevent detritus from settling in low flow area. It's essential to manage an optimal flow...

dsrreefing.com

olonmv · Sep 12, 2022

Reab said:
One other thing to mention for removing bacteria

That nitrate destroyer, it’s simple and seems to be good results with it.

Reab · Sep 12, 2022

Jcon82 · Sep 12, 2022

Reab said:
One other thing to mention for removing bacteria

So I have a maxi-jet 1200 I use for water changes. I think I could rig this up but don't want to create a typhoon in my 40 gallon tank

Reab · Sep 12, 2022

Jcon82 said:
So I have a maxi-jet 1200 I use for water changes. I think I could rig this up but don't want to create a typhoon in my 40 gallon tank

I pointed mine right at a rock and it worked well for me.
It’s definitely been difficult to implement in smaller tanks that’s for sure.

Jcon82 · Sep 12, 2022

Jase4224 said:
Keep your system clean, vac sand during water changes, toothbrush your rocks before water changes and don’t feed more than your fish actually eat. Also avoid over stocking. A bit of micro Bacter Clean can help keep the system clean.

A pic and more info on your system would help.

I vacuum my sand and brush the rocks weekly. I have dialed back my feeding and will be taking a break from dosing reef energy and phyto.

I was considering trying waste-away or upgrading my Chemipure blue to elite.

ReefGeezer · Sep 12, 2022

There are some pretty decent HOB protein skimmers available for a couple hundred bucks, cheaper if you find them used. They aren't super efficient, but they would work for carbon dosing purposes.

Reab said:

I don't know what you mean by "Industry Friendly". You realize that the goal of carbon dosing is to remove the bacteria while it still contains its bound nutrients. Even if this works, how does bursting them and returning the nutrient laden water back to the system accomplish anything?

Reab · Sep 12, 2022

Jcon82 said:
I vacuum my sand and brush the rocks weekly. I have dialed back my feeding and will be taking a break from dosing reef energy and phyto.

I was considering trying waste-away or upgrading my Chemipure blue to elite.

I tried waste away but didn’t see any results really, but again that’s going into getting a bacteria population elevated. Reef energy and photo will definitely skyrocket your nutrients. I prefer blue over elite personally but it might be worth considering or trying

Reab · Sep 12, 2022

ReefGeezer said:
There are some pretty decent HOB protein skimmers available for a couple hundred bucks, cheaper if you find them used. They aren't super efficient, but they would work for carbon dosing purposes.

I don't know what you mean by "Industry Friendly". You realize that the goal of carbon dosing is to remove the bacteria while it still contains its bound nutrients. Even if this works, how does bursting them and returning the nutrient laden water back to the system accomplish anything?

Not my fb post just offering some more information on it that could point in the correct direction. I’m not entirely sure on the process but I know that it has helped me with nitrate issues and is an alternate method. Either way it helps clean up the system quite quickly with the mechanical filtration

olonmv · Sep 12, 2022

Reab said:
I tried waste away but didn’t see any results really, but again that’s going into getting a bacteria population elevated. Reef energy and photo will definitely skyrocket your nutrients. I prefer blue over elite personally but it might be worth considering or trying

Waste away is a bacteria mostly focused on removing detritus. MB7 is more geared for anaerobic bacteria.