Voltage puzzler Scratching my head??

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This has been puzzling me for a good while and I finally decided to explore it a little.

I have a large setup in my basement with three separate systems. My main system has always given me a little zap to moderate tingle if I had any cuts on my fingers and had no shoes on.

Today I discovered that it is somehow related to my heaters, chiller and controller but I do not understand why.

here is what happens

1. when the temp controller is unplugged and nothing is plugged into it and the controller is turned off i get not tingle at all.

2. if I plug the controller in and turn it on with nothing plugged in to it still no zap

3. if i keep the controller plugged in and plug the chiller or heater in I get the zap. even if the controller is turned off.

4. i plugged a powerhead that was in the tank the controller and also got not tingle.

5. I bypassed the controller and got the zap again.


I ran this experiment with three different temp controllers on the main system and the results were the same.

I also ran it on a different system and got no zap at all. same heater and controller and outlet.



So all I can come up with is that somehow only in my main system my heater or chiller is causing some amount of voltage in the tank as long . Even if the controller is off.

I am at a total loss as to why this is happening. any concepts or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

I did test the tank with a cheapo auto sensing digital multimeter. I can't really say for sure if I am even doing it right but it shows .53mv DC and .005 V AC

If I can offer any other info please let me know.

Thanks

 

[fragmatic]

The only thing I read as not being isolated in your "well thought out method" was the chiller. Theory is, unplug only one thing at a time until you unplug the item that is the source. These would be items that are actually in your water, or have water in them (like the chiller). Don't forget to consider temperature probes, pH probes, etc, as items.

Have you added new plugs to any items? ("Sometimes" it is as simple as the plug wires needing swapped on an item that had a plug added, meaning the "hot" wire was connected to the wrong prong. The black wire or when there is no black wire the one with ridges or roughness "should" be wired to the thinner prong). But, this is less often the reason these days.

As to using the meter. In the USA, you need to stick one probe into the water and the other probe to the grounding screw in the center of a wall outlet. Make sure you poke through the paint and get to the metal of the screw head. Try that for a reading. Set the meter for AC volts. While the offending device is plugged in (you are getting a tingle) the meter should be reading a few volts if you set it up this way. When you unplug the correct piece of equipment the meter should read in the mv (thousandths of a volt) once again. So, this means you don't have to "get a tingle", while you are seeking the source. We don't want you getting that tingle. When you find the source, eliminate it, it could become more serious at any time!

 

[rajkovich207]

Hey Adam, hopefully I can be of a bit of help. First and foremost check your grounds including in the outlet, next are you running all on a gfci, if so when you play with the cords does it trip it? Wiggle things around and see what happens. It sounds to me like there is a ground that isn't working properly. Most controllers have a built in interrupter, but I believe it takes quite a bit to trip. Last question, are there power lines close to your house? I don't remember seeing any and it may sound silly, but sometimes they give off voltage, and it might be possible you are picking this up with one of the devices, like an antenna sort of.

 

[Eggs]

It sounds to me like there is a ground that isn't working properly.

That was also my initial thought.

 

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Thanks a lot for you input guys.

I have had another development. I went ahead and threw the breaker for the entire pannel that feeds all the aquarium setups and still got the tingle when the chiller or heathers were plugged in. even after I unplugged them there was a very slight tingle still. So with no power going to anything in the entire room at all I still got the tingle. I agree the hand in the tank method is not the smartest and will use the multimeter from now on,

The multi meter reads 120 at the socket so can I assume that it is working? In the water with the breaker off it reads .005 vAC. And this time it read 295 + or - mv Dc I may not have gat an accurate DC reading yesterday. when i threw the breaker back on i still read 295 DC but it was bouncing up and down a little with the pumps on as well.

edit i just tested this again with everything on and the meter jumps to 375 mvDC then settles at about .4. AC is still .005
One more thing. With the red probe in the water it reads negative MV. when the black is in the water it reads the +

So it's not very consistant but it would seem that there is DC voltage in the tank then?

Does that make any more sense?

 

[ReeferBob]

Strange. Have you tried a polarity checker on each outlet?

 

[-Logzor]

Adam is the outlet grounded? I experienced a very similar issue where I ran careful tests and could NEVER pinpoint the cause of the zapping. Moving to a grounded outlet solved it. I suspect some kind of backfeed was causing the issue.

 

[GratefulReef]

Wait, you turned all the power off via the breaker to everything on the tank, and still got a tingle? Thats just crazy!

 

[Battlecorals Verified Sponsor]

Wait, you turned all the power off via the breaker to everything on the tank, and still got a tingle? Thats just crazy!

yes. I turned off the breaker at the pannel and still got it. No power in the basement at all. It was eerily quiet.

The outlet is grounded for sure. All the electric down there is ran in conduit new about four years ago and completely up to code. (at least in 2008). I added a second service to the house just for the business this past summer even.

By polarity checker, do you mean the gadget that plugs in with the two yellow and one red lights?

I have done that. Is a polarity checker something different?

Thanks again for the input guys. I'd by delighted to get to the bottom of this one. This has been on the back burner for a long time. I just finally got the initiative to figure it out. I have a good friend that is an electrician in chicago. I think I may give him a call and see if he can offer any ideas. He is the one who put the new service in this summer.

If anyone can offer any other ideas it would be greatly appreciated I know there are people who are real smart when it comes to these things on this forum

 

[ReeferBob]

Yep - that red thing with the lights. 2 yellows means all is well. It sounds like you might have a leak to ground somewhere in the house. That could energize your ground like you are seeing. Measure the voltage coming off the ground and see if there is anything. I'd guess red probe to ground and black to an actual ground like a pipe.

 

[Battlecorals Verified Sponsor]

thanks again for the input. the meter reads .005 again when I did ground to "ground" I agree that it seems like it is something like what you said. Maybe i'll test a couple different areas and see what I find.

 

[fragmatic]

Are you bare footed when you do this or are your shoes/feet damp. That indicates something in the house has a ground short. If you get a tingle with everything unplugged (that is different) you have a hot feed of some kind to the floor or something,,, ... ... is this a cement floor? What else are you touching to get this tingle?

Change your DVM to read amps (current) and see what it reads.

You may be wise to have a friend who is into electronics come over and do the testing. You really need to know what is going on. If could become serious. .. deadly serious. AND while you are at it get that circuit on a ground fault outlet.

 

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I have had everything down there on gfci's since day one

I was in my socks. not bare feet when I got the tingle. if I put shoes on it goes away completely. This tingle is not present in the two other systems.

The floor is concrete and my grounded water main runs through it for sure. I tested the current fron the floor to the ground and it was .01mv.

It just seems peculiar that i can feel the tingle but the water is reading .005 Vac. In my QT tank i read almost 17 vac and i get no tingle at all. ( I had to try) the other system also read about 14 vAC and in my socks I got no tingle.

How is it that the main system that reads so low clearly has some amount of voltage that is not showing up? Maybe that's not exactly the right question but something along those lines?

I agree I would like to get to the bottom of this. Like the title says, it seems very odd. I'll give my friend a call and see if he has any ideas as well.

Thanks again