Voltage reading in tank is 8.1v is this a problem?
- Thread starter ksp123
- Start date
- Tagged users None
no, its minimal, normal. but...
http://www.amazon.com/RV2735-Rid-Vo...5932&sr=1-1&keywords=grounding+probe+aquarium
http://www.amazon.com/RV2735-Rid-Vo...5932&sr=1-1&keywords=grounding+probe+aquarium
As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
Waterjockey
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2016
- Messages
- 646
- Reaction score
- 561
I would unplug your devices 1 by 1 and see where the voltage leak is coming from. Are you measuring from the tank to the ground plug in your outlet, I assume?
Cheers!
Cheers!
Waterjockey
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2016
- Messages
- 646
- Reaction score
- 561
I don't understand. If you put a grounding probe in your tank, are you not providing a current path through your tank? Is there no worries about killing your live-stock?
Cheers!
As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
bobman
Well-Known Member
I think the same thing if there is stray voltage it will not harm the tank till it finds a ground. By adding a grounding probe you are completing the circuit and allowing the electrocution to begin. However if you have the equipment hooked to a GFI then either way should not be a problem
Sabellafella
7500 Club Member
Excellence Award
Reef Tank 365
Reef Of The Month
Reef Squad Emeritus
Reef Master
My Tank Thread
My Aquarium Showcase
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2015
- Messages
- 7,593
- Reaction score
- 12,048
Mine reads 22.3. For the last i months and im not having problems (yet maybe)
yes you provide a path for the electricity. probe or you. its a choice.
its actually there if you ground or not. EMF. Esp if you have t5 or choked ac pumps.
that explains the amazing growth.
Sabellafella
7500 Club Member
Excellence Award
Reef Tank 365
Reef Of The Month
Reef Squad Emeritus
Reef Master
My Tank Thread
My Aquarium Showcase
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2015
- Messages
- 7,593
- Reaction score
- 12,048
Lololololyes you provide a path for the electricity. probe or you. its a choice.
its actually there if you ground or not. EMF. Esp if you have t5 or choked ac pumps.
that explains the amazing growth.
bobman
Well-Known Member
Yup. Replacing my return w dc. Going led. Dc power heads. The heater is a trick but I have an idea there. Ato is dc.
Tunze just introduced the dc skimmer line.
Power bill and my wife will both be happier.
Tunze just introduced the dc skimmer line.
Power bill and my wife will both be happier.
Waterjockey
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2016
- Messages
- 646
- Reaction score
- 561
yes you provide a path for the electricity. probe or you. its a choice.
its actually there if you ground or not. EMF. Esp if you have t5 or choked ac pumps.
that explains the amazing growth.
I wouldn't trust a grounding probe in the tank to do a lot for my protection.....a ground in a salt-water bath is not a "hard" ground....I could just as easily end up being a parallel path to ground. The *only* thing I would trust is a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI). The cost of a gfci isn't that much more that a grounding probe and (a) it could save your life, and (b) no danger of cooking any livestock in the tank by completing the circuit to ground in the event of stray currents in the tank. There is no way in the world I am going to feel any safer from shock with a ground probe in a liquid bath...way way too many possible paths for current. The only thing I might do, is put a ground probe in, wire it through a resistor and a small led, then to ground. That way if there stray voltage in the tank, the little led will light up warning you the tank is "hot", yet only provide minimal current flow (just enough to light the led.
Cheers!
sorry. I believe your science is incorrect.
led are DC you cant put it on a ground rod for AC power.
AC takes the path of least resistance, copper is better than flesh as a conductor so less resistance.
EMF is what causes "stray Voltage" letting it out removes it by giving it a path.
EMF staying in the tank is likely worse for animals than being directed to ground, as it moves the current out of the tank as verified by a meter.
A gfci will not trip on a low current(not voltage) short. Its not a ground fault, its a hot neutral short circuit.
if you are using ac in your tank it is "hot" as AC creates EMF.
A probe and a gfci are both good things.
Waterjockey
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2016
- Messages
- 646
- Reaction score
- 561
Hi, thanks for your reply. Yes, to use a led you would need a diode for a 1/2 wave rectifier....I wasn't putting a whole circuit design up (i.e., resister values etc), just for the concept of the only use I can see for a grounding probe in a marine tank.
My "science" is correct, that I am certain of. Power (AC or DC) does *not* take "the path of least resistance", it takes all paths available to it....the amount of current flowing in any one of the paths is easily calculated if you know the impedience/resistance of the path. This is how *any* parallel circuit works....power flows through all paths available, and in an ac ciruit, the amount that flows is proportional to the impediance of that path (amongst other things, wire size, upstream protections, etc). You will also have a voltage gradient across the tank from the point of voltage injection (the shorting pump/heater, whatever) to the point of "exit" (the grounding probe). This is what could possibly make it harmful to your livestock..and possibly a human.
A class 'A' gfci is set to trip at any current exceeding 5 milliamps..the rate (speed) it trips is proportional to the current rise. It essentially senses the current flowing in the "hot" and in the "neutral". More than 5 milliamps difference (i.e. current flowing to ground instead of returning through the neutral) it will trip. It trips (hopefully) before the current flow rises to a level that is harmful to humans. It's the current that will kill ya....a ground probe in a electolyte solution will not necessarily eliminate harmful or lethal currents...if you were to stick both hands in the tank for example, you could get a current flowing through your heart from the difference in potential from the voltage gradient across the tank created by sticking the ground probe in there. Or you could simply provide a parallel ground at a higher voltage potential.
I'm not sure what you mean by "EMF"? ElectroMagnetic Fields? Any time you have current flowing through a conductor, electromagnetic fields are created.....this is also the ElectoMagnectic Force (EMF) that actually makes our pump motors rotate. Electromagnetic fields from our tank equipment are far, far, too small to cause harm to any higher life forms (fish, humans, etc). People (me included) often work around extremely high emf fields all the time, for decades on end (I am a power engineer and have worked 30 years in generating stations producing as much as 4,000 MegaWatts...there are electromagnetic fields coming off those generators hundreds to thousands of millions times more powerful than you will get from any aquarium equipment). You cannot "drain off" any emf from the tank as long as any induction equipment is running (i.e. pump motors). If you were sucessful, all motors in the tank would cease to operate.
Any switchyard operated by a power company has a very carefully planned grounding system for this very reason. It is crushed gravel to create void space and has a "grid" or "network" of hundreds of ground conductors buried beneath the gravel for this very reason...in the industry it's called "step potential"..to ensure that there is no voltage gradient that could zap you by walking (i.e. the distance between each of your legs as you step). Putting a single grounding probe in the tank sets up the exact scenario utilites spend millions of dollars on switchyard grounding networks to avoid.
To make things worse, theoretically, a grounding probe would let as much current flow through the tank as the circuit breaker/fuse protecting that circuit would allow. If, for example, you were flowing 15 or 20 amps through a small pump motor power cord you could start a fire from it overheating and the faulty equipment + grounding probe would merrily allow it to continue to feed power until the breaker/fuse tripped or the wire melted. If it was only flowing say 10 amps through a 15 amp ciruit breaker, it would never stop. It seems like a heck of a risk to me, for so very little possible gain.
A gfci outlet costs less than $15 at the hardware store, will protect your life, and poses no risk to your livestock and very unlikely to allow enough current to flow to start a fire vs $10 for a grounding probe of dubious value in my opinion.
Cheers!
Cheers!
My "science" is correct, that I am certain of. Power (AC or DC) does *not* take "the path of least resistance", it takes all paths available to it....the amount of current flowing in any one of the paths is easily calculated if you know the impedience/resistance of the path. This is how *any* parallel circuit works....power flows through all paths available, and in an ac ciruit, the amount that flows is proportional to the impediance of that path (amongst other things, wire size, upstream protections, etc). You will also have a voltage gradient across the tank from the point of voltage injection (the shorting pump/heater, whatever) to the point of "exit" (the grounding probe). This is what could possibly make it harmful to your livestock..and possibly a human.
A class 'A' gfci is set to trip at any current exceeding 5 milliamps..the rate (speed) it trips is proportional to the current rise. It essentially senses the current flowing in the "hot" and in the "neutral". More than 5 milliamps difference (i.e. current flowing to ground instead of returning through the neutral) it will trip. It trips (hopefully) before the current flow rises to a level that is harmful to humans. It's the current that will kill ya....a ground probe in a electolyte solution will not necessarily eliminate harmful or lethal currents...if you were to stick both hands in the tank for example, you could get a current flowing through your heart from the difference in potential from the voltage gradient across the tank created by sticking the ground probe in there. Or you could simply provide a parallel ground at a higher voltage potential.
I'm not sure what you mean by "EMF"? ElectroMagnetic Fields? Any time you have current flowing through a conductor, electromagnetic fields are created.....this is also the ElectoMagnectic Force (EMF) that actually makes our pump motors rotate. Electromagnetic fields from our tank equipment are far, far, too small to cause harm to any higher life forms (fish, humans, etc). People (me included) often work around extremely high emf fields all the time, for decades on end (I am a power engineer and have worked 30 years in generating stations producing as much as 4,000 MegaWatts...there are electromagnetic fields coming off those generators hundreds to thousands of millions times more powerful than you will get from any aquarium equipment). You cannot "drain off" any emf from the tank as long as any induction equipment is running (i.e. pump motors). If you were sucessful, all motors in the tank would cease to operate.
Any switchyard operated by a power company has a very carefully planned grounding system for this very reason. It is crushed gravel to create void space and has a "grid" or "network" of hundreds of ground conductors buried beneath the gravel for this very reason...in the industry it's called "step potential"..to ensure that there is no voltage gradient that could zap you by walking (i.e. the distance between each of your legs as you step). Putting a single grounding probe in the tank sets up the exact scenario utilites spend millions of dollars on switchyard grounding networks to avoid.
To make things worse, theoretically, a grounding probe would let as much current flow through the tank as the circuit breaker/fuse protecting that circuit would allow. If, for example, you were flowing 15 or 20 amps through a small pump motor power cord you could start a fire from it overheating and the faulty equipment + grounding probe would merrily allow it to continue to feed power until the breaker/fuse tripped or the wire melted. If it was only flowing say 10 amps through a 15 amp ciruit breaker, it would never stop. It seems like a heck of a risk to me, for so very little possible gain.
A gfci outlet costs less than $15 at the hardware store, will protect your life, and poses no risk to your livestock and very unlikely to allow enough current to flow to start a fire vs $10 for a grounding probe of dubious value in my opinion.
Cheers!
Cheers!
Didn't mean to make ya mad.
Just tell folks to use a probe and gfci because they work.
We both know they do.
They def work better than nothing.
Let's say an idiot installs a t5 retro w bad grounds bad polarity or used ground lift so he can use a cheap timer.
Touches fixture hand in water. A probe and gfci may save his life.
One might the other might.
$25 for both.
You can say I'm wrong cuz your mad.
But I'm right.
You know it.
Bye bye.
Waterjockey
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2016
- Messages
- 646
- Reaction score
- 561
Hi!
I am not "mad" by any means at all, sorry if my post sounded like I was! If you are ever in the Niagara Falls area, I'd be more than happy to buy ya lunch and a couple o beers and shoot the breeze about corals and fishies
I'll agree in that scenerio a grounding probe in the tank will likely shunt most of that current if for some reason your gfci fails or you fail to put one on your tank.
I'll go with that...make sure you have a gfci on your tank circuit...it may help your grounding probe work better
Again, sorry if my post came across as if I was upset in any way.....I was/am not...just somewhat passionate about electrical safety..know too many people who have been seriously injured (I also do industrial accident investigations for my employer) by poor design, lack of maintenance, or lack of good training
Cheers!
