PapaDragon
Valuable Member
I have a 125G aquarium that is 72" L x 18" W x 29" T and I'm considering upgrading to VorTech MP40's. My question is are two of them too much? I've read in several other threads that the flow can be extreme.
VorTech Powerhead Question
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PapaDragon
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How big is your aquarium?
AJreefs
Active Member
If you plan on doing sps in the future consider the Mp 60's; you could start with one and add a second if needed later, thats a pretty long tank for fortys in my opinion. I have two mp 40s in a 40 breeder and they work well but I think it would be bare minimum in a six foot tank with only two power heads. just my two cents
mcarroll
10K Club member
While it depends a bit on what you plan to stock the tank with, I would argue that a Vortech is the wrong pump to flow that tank. For this reason, I think the person that recommended MP60's may be on the right track...sort of.
The Vortech flow pattern is short and stubby, with the MP40 barely reaching three feet. So even with two you will likely have a lot of dead zones. You'll also be inclined to leave them running at 100% for this reason and they do tend to be relatively noisy at max speed. They are also really expensive for what they are, but this doesn't really make then the "wrong pump".
For a long skinny tank like yours a Tunze Stream or Nanostream (with its focused, movable output) would do a much better job.
You can visually see the flow patterns compared in this excellent video.
Switching to a Tunze solution would also erase the $1000 requirement you mentioned as well as the suggestions in the thread that you should use MP60's ($$$) instead of MP40's ($$).
If you are hardcore about using Vortech pumps, I think my suggestion for better (adequate) coverage would be to use three of them spaced evenly along the back wall...this way you shouldn't have to run them at 100% since they don't have much distance to cover, and this should erase most of the dead space issues too. (At about $1500, this is just wa-a-ay too expensive for what you get, IMO.)
-Matt
P.S. The tank measurements you give would equal what is sold as a 150 gallon tank - not a 125 gallon (which is only about 18"-20" tall).
The Vortech flow pattern is short and stubby, with the MP40 barely reaching three feet. So even with two you will likely have a lot of dead zones. You'll also be inclined to leave them running at 100% for this reason and they do tend to be relatively noisy at max speed. They are also really expensive for what they are, but this doesn't really make then the "wrong pump".
For a long skinny tank like yours a Tunze Stream or Nanostream (with its focused, movable output) would do a much better job.
You can visually see the flow patterns compared in this excellent video.
Switching to a Tunze solution would also erase the $1000 requirement you mentioned as well as the suggestions in the thread that you should use MP60's ($$$) instead of MP40's ($$).
If you are hardcore about using Vortech pumps, I think my suggestion for better (adequate) coverage would be to use three of them spaced evenly along the back wall...this way you shouldn't have to run them at 100% since they don't have much distance to cover, and this should erase most of the dead space issues too. (At about $1500, this is just wa-a-ay too expensive for what you get, IMO.)
-Matt
P.S. The tank measurements you give would equal what is sold as a 150 gallon tank - not a 125 gallon (which is only about 18"-20" tall).
mcarroll, I agree. I have a 150 72x18x29 with 2 mp40s and it has dead spots. I would like to move the mp40s to the back wall and add a tunze stream to the end, but you can get a pretty nice standing wave with them on the ends. I would use both IMO.
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PapaDragon
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Thanks!
I'm not sure why I said 125G it's a 150G. Nice catch.
My motivation for considering the VorTech MP40 is the esthetics of getting rid of some wires in my tank. Right now I have two Koralia 7's and two Koralia 4's connected to a Koralia 12V Wavemaker 4 Control System and that means I have wires everywhere. Part of my problem is self inflicted, with such a skinny tank my live rock looks like a big long wall. No islands at all so I have issues with dead spots. I know I could rearrange the landscape, but honestly I'm scared of moving stuff around because some of my corals are doing great and my fish appear to love all the places to hide. Can the Tunze replace a K7 and K4 on one side of tank?
Oh in my defense I didn't know how important more width is sense this was my first "big" tank. My next Tank will be a deep dimensions tank.
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mcarroll
10K Club member
Understandable. There are only trade-offs, no perfect solutions though. With the Vortech's you've got ugly black warts sticking out all over the sides of your tank with thick wires running from them (unless you mount them in the back, which also comes with issues; or unless you have an in-wall tank). Others as well as myself have had the "wet side" drop like a bomb into corals when (e.g.) something happens to jam the propeller. It's not that unlikely and it's something that really isn't possible with a traditional (aka modern) double insulated pump with a cord. (If you don't have the "dry side" well secured, it becomes a missile weapon and could crack your tank or damage anything below the pump when it falls - they are heavy!)
It's going to be a tough call on how to best flow this tank if you can't "correct" the rock-work to at least some extent.
If you really can't change the rocks, I think your best bet is half a dozen small Nanostream 6045's. Nanostreams are small, inexpensive, and their aim is infinitely adjustable, so strategic placement is easy. But, if hiding the pumps in the tank is key, use one (or a few) Nanostream Rocks to mount one (or a few) of them - that is removing them from view.
Having a massive rock structure usually implies it's also too dense to ever get good water flow under and through it. Having lots of smaller (still with a 4' reach) pumps will make this a little easier to deal with. This is essentially my situation too, but I have too many corals instead of too much live rock. I either change the direction or placement of my 6045 pumps (3 in a fifty gallon) sorta regularly to keep the tank "fresher".Nanostream 6045's go for about $93, and I'd say you could get excellent results with anywhere between six and ten of them - $560 to $930 dollars worth. Start with just three or four though and if you feel you need another one or two, add them. Repeat this as needed.
The Nanostream Rocks go for $48. I would try to be creative with placement of the 6045's and add the Rock's only if you can't get a satisfactory setup without them. The way I like running these is with an A-B type of wavemaker to simulate the tides. Long 4-6 hr on/off cycles.
Tunze has several excellent controllable pumps if you really want pulsing or standing waves, storm modes, etc. The Nanostream line has the 6055 ($234) and 6095 ($268).
There's also the larger Stream line if you want to try and do it all with one (or fewer) pump. Though they are a little bigger, you would be shocked at how powerful the Stream 6105 ($348) is - with or without adding a controller to it. If you are tempted by this (or any of the Streams), I would try to flow the whole tank with only one 6105. Maybe add two 6105's ($700 total) to alternate and/or a controller to add some variety to the flow you set up. There's a Rock ($71) available to hide these too.
I would really recommend a little rearranging - thin out and restack your rock, and consider removing most or all of your sand bed. (This will allow you greater flexibility in placing your pumps.) It may be a little hard to judge since your tank is somewhat grown in already, but I usually tell people that after stacking their rock their tank should look only about 30% full, and be rife with open spaces both within the structure and around it. Under most circumstances, no more than 1 pound of live rock per gallon of tank (150 pounds in your case) are called for to do this. Sometimes a lot less than that. No need to over do it with the live rock, doubly so in a narrow tank.
My first was (and still is) a "38 gallon" - basically the three foot version of your tank. Tall and skinny.
Also eyeing a Deep Dimension, but lacking a Deep Pocket to pay for one so far. -Matt
Devonjevon
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PapaDragon
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Matt,
Thanks for all the information. You recommended I get rid of my sand bed, but isn't that dangerous to do with an established bed? I started my tank with a deep 5 inch bed so it has a ton of life in it I think. Also my gobies might get a little upset.
I'm actually going to skip a chess tournament this weekend to try and rearrange my rocks. Thanks again for all the help.
Thanks for all the information. You recommended I get rid of my sand bed, but isn't that dangerous to do with an established bed? I started my tank with a deep 5 inch bed so it has a ton of life in it I think. Also my gobies might get a little upset.
I'm actually going to skip a chess tournament this weekend to try and rearrange my rocks. Thanks again for all the help.
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PapaDragon
Valuable Member
You have got some serious flow in your tank.
mcarroll
10K Club member
It would definitely be advisable (as with all things reef - this can be your default position on any topic where change or something new is involved) to go slowly when removing it. A little with each water change, for example. Or remove it 1/5 at a time if you want to make bigger changes. I wouldn't worry too much as your live rock has more than plenty of surface area for filtration concerns, you just want to make sure it doesn't have to pick up 100% of the bio-filter duties too fast.
Good luck!
-Matt
P.S. Leave the sand (or some of it) under and around the rocks for the gobies if you want. They will make do with shells and bits of rock instead though. Either way this sand in/under the rocks shouldn't be as affected by high water flow as that around the glass - YMMV of course, so see how it goes.
