Vortech wetside corrosion?

[Maxx]

This thread: Anyone else have terrible rusting issues with MP40wES wetsides?
raised some questions for me.

Do Vortech's have a problem with rust and corrosion, or is it just a small percentage of the many they sell?
Is it a real problem or are some people just unlucky?
Were the affected wet sides new or old with many years of use on them?


I realize that every manufacturer has some lemons escape from the factory, and mistakes happen. But one of the posters in the previous thread mentioned he/she checked all six of his wetsides and they were ALL rusted and cracked.

Now, I dont know what his/her maintenance schedule or method was, (were they soaked in an extremely harsh corrosive acid for an excessively long period of time, (doubtful, but possible), or were they babied and treated like delicate fragile flowers, (also doubtful, but you never know)?

Another thing to consider is that while the internet and forums have been a fantastic source of information, (especially in this hobby), it has also allowed things to seem like a larger problem than they may actually be. For example, lets say a company makes something and sells a million units. If 1 percent of those units is defective, that is 10 thousand defective units. Happy people rarely complain, but unhappy people make a substantial amount of noise. So it is quite possible for those 10 thousand defective units to appear larger than the actual 1% they really are.

Another poster in the above thread states this is a well known and well documented problem with Vortech wet sides.
Is it really, or is it a unhappy people who are making a big deal out of a statistically insignificant problem?

I've had Vortech MP40WQD's in the past and never had an issue with them. I soaked the wet sides in vinegar for cleaning,(monthly), and never saw any rusting. But I only had two and only had them for about 18 months before I broke the tank down and got out the hobby. So my sample size and longevity of experience with them is pretty small, (statistically useless).

My experience with Eco-Tech customer service has been limited but extremely positive. I've owned and used both Radions and Vortechs the few problems or questions I've had, have been addressed quickly, professionally, and to my satisfaction. Which is why I find it unlikely that there is a vast number of failing Vortechs out there in the hobby and Eco-Tech is ignoring it.

However, I've been wrong before and I could be wrong again.

So if you personally have experience with a rusting Vortech, please chime in and answer the following questions:

How many wet sides do you have?
How many wet sides are rusting/corroded?
What model are they (MP10, MP40, MP60, ES,QD, W-QD)?
How old are your wet sides?
What are you cleaning them with?
How often are you cleaning them?
Can you post pictures of the affected wet side(s)?
Have you contacted Eco-Tech about this?
What was their response?

The goal of this thread is strictly information gathering, NOT to bash Eco-tech or promote other manufacturers!


Things wear out over time and the saltwater environment is extremely hard on equipment. Expecting any piece of equipment in this hobby to last forever is foolish and short sighted. However, equipment that is promoted as top tier and priced accordingly should last longer than inexpensive lower quality equipment.

I started this thread here because this forum gets the most traffic and is likely to get the most responses.

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

[carmodpg]

Rusting happens in older wetsides, apparently the newer wetsides are more resilient. This issue has been talked about at great length on numerous posts. Here is a link to one very well written post:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/beware-of-vinegar-the-pump-killer.643396/

 

[Mical]

I've never had rusting or issues w/any of my Vortech powerheads. I have Mp10s and Mp40s and monthly I soak them in white vinegar & RODI water and lube them with food grade glycerin.

 

[dadnjesse]

I have had around five wet sides where the magnet swells and they were junk. I always used to soak them in vinegar, the last one I noticed was just a few weeks ago. I stopped the vinegar but it's too soon to tell if it has helped.

 

[Bleigh]

I just got 2 mp10’s Friday. Hopefully this won’t be an issue for me.

 

[Mical]

I have had around five wet sides where the magnet swells and they were junk. I always used to soak them in vinegar, the last one I noticed was just a few weeks ago. I stopped the vinegar but it's too soon to tell if it has helped.

When I soak in vinegar it's 50% vinegar & RODI water or less (vinegar) Higher % vinegar will have reaction to plastic housings etc... And it's for only an hour or two, not overnight.

 

[dadnjesse]

I was putting mine in straight vinegar and because I have spares I usually forgot they were soaking. I won't use vinegar any more, I got some citric acid to use from now on.

 

[Scorpius]

I've soaked my wet sides in 100% vinegar for a few hrs with never any magnet wet side failures in the five years I've used MP-10's and 40's

 

[Mical]

I've never had issues w/vinegar as long as it was diluted. I have 1 MP10 that's 7 years old and works as good as others, no issues. Citric acid is good also, but doesn't clean as fast or as well IMO.

 

[Maxx]

Rusting happens in older wetsides, apparently the newer wetsides are more resilient. This issue has been talked about at great length on numerous posts. Here is a link to one very well written post:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/beware-of-vinegar-the-pump-killer.643396/

I'm reading this now.
Great thread and very informative.
Thank you.

 

[dadnjesse]

I love my MP40 pumps but it's a known problem

Beware of Vinegar - The Pump Killer

I have posted bits and piece of my vinegar story over the past three years, and I thought it would be beneficial if one post contained all that I've learn. You'll be surprised! This story will contain three parts; my history with vinegar, the cause and simplified chemistry what's happening...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[rkpetersen]

The acetic acid in vinegar, being an organic acid, can leach into plastic and degrade it.
Citric acid is a larger molecule and as far as we know, shouldn't penetrate plastic.
Another option is hydrochloric acid, or the less-pure version called muriatic acid.
The highly polar HCl ions won't penetrate plastics.
I use diluted HCl to clean my pumps. It's fast, effective, and doesn't smell.
Even have a 2 year old Gyre that I've never had to take apart, or replace the bushings on;
Just soak it in HCl while running for a few hours every now and then, all the coralline etc dissolves right off.

 

[Albertan22]

I have replaced both my MP40wES wet sides with the newer QD wet sides. Both failed after around 6-7 years of continuous use. The magnets swelled, cracking the housing then rusted on both. I noticed during cleanings (in vinegar). I honestly didn’t think much of it at the time. Before running Vortechs I’d gone through at least 3 sets of Koralias in a 3 year period. Nothing lasts forever, especially in a saltwater environment. The dry sides and drivers are still going strong.

 

[Leslie Tabor]

I just went to get my MP40QD out to use again, had been in my tank 3 yrs, pulled it when I upgraded. The propeller was frozen so I pulled it all apart and was surprised to find rust. Did not know about this until now. So much awesome info here!

 

[Tuan’s Reef]

Owned 2 mp10’s for over 12 months and both wet sides look like it’s brand new.
I only clean mine with tap water and a toothbrush. Recently sold 1 away but wet side look new as well.

there was a thread indicating using vinegar or citric acid may penetrate the plastic and cause the spindle to rust.

 

[Bleigh]

The acetic acid in vinegar, being an organic acid, can leach into plastic and degrade it.
Citric acid is a larger molecule and as far as we know, shouldn't penetrate plastic.
Another option is hydrochloric acid, or the less-pure version called muriatic acid.
The highly polar HCl ions won't penetrate plastics.
I use diluted HCl to clean my pumps. It's fast, effective, and doesn't smell.
Even have a 2 year old Gyre that I've never had to take apart, or replace the bushings on;
Just soak it in HCl while running for a few hours every now and then, all the coralline etc dissolves right off.

Where do you get it from?

 

[ZoWhat]

If the spindle is rusting....why aren't ppl using high grit sandpaper to knock off the rust and put the dang thing back in service?

Yeah you'll get future rust from sanding but I'll take sanding the spindle 3-4 a year over buying a new one....

I would think once you sand off the rust you could coat the spindle with reef safe nontoxic vaseline jelly to slow down future rusting

 

[Albertan22]

If the spindle is rusting....why aren't ppl using high grit sandpaper to knock off the rust and put the dang thing back in service?

Yeah you'll get future rust from sanding but I'll take sanding the spindle 3-4 a year over buying a new one....

I would think once you sand off the rust you could coat the spindle with reef safe nontoxic vaseline jelly to slow down future rusting

It wasn’t the spindle for me, it was the magnet itself swelling and grinding on the plastic it was encased in. The pump started being really noisy as it wasn’t spinning freely anymore. I’m pretty sure you can replacement spindles if that’s all that going (at least you used too be able to). I know I replaced one of those nylon washers once when I rebuilt it wrong and wrecked it.

 

[ca1ore]

It's unclear to me why some folks seem to have issues with their vortech wetsides yet I do not. I've owned 15 of them over the past 6 years with a mix of the older ES models and newer QD models (I still have 10 of them, having retired most of the ES) and have not had a single rusting/swelling problem with the magnets. I have has some discoloration on the spindles of my two MP10s, but both continue to work and I see no tank related issues.

I have never used vinegar on the actual magnet assemblies - I only use it on the external plastic cages - and I am pretty diligent about replacing the wetsides after about 5 years of use (which is longer than ETM recommend).

I do recall that when the QD models first came out that there seemed to be a 'rash' of premature wetside failures (mostly MP40 as I recall), but whatever the problem was, ETM appears to have addressed it.

 

[dadnjesse]

Where do you get it from?

HCI is Hydrochloric Acid or Muriatic acid you can get at lowes or any hardware store