Waffle scams

[Wildreefs]

TSM is currently running a waffle (raffle) for a Madagascar flasher wrasse. 99 spots(entries) at $21 a spot, is about $2000 they will get from the “waffle”.

That fish imports for just about $150. If it dies on the person who wins it, that person gets there $21 back, yet company still keeps $1,980 from everyone else . How is this legal?

 

[GK3]

TSM is currently running a waffle (raffle) for a Madagascar flasher wrasse. 99 spots(entries) at $21 a spot, is about $2000 they will get from the “waffle”.

That fish imports for just about $150. If it dies on the person who wins it, that person gets there $21 back, yet company still keeps $1,980 from everyone else . How is this legal?

Capitalism.

It may import for $150 but how common are they? If people are willing to risk 21$, it works.

 

[ronnie]

TSM is currently running a waffle (raffle) for a Madagascar flasher wrasse. 99 spots(entries) at $21 a spot, is about $2000 they will get from the “waffle”.

That fish imports for just about $150. If it dies on the person who wins it, that person gets there $21 back, yet company still keeps $1,980 from everyone else . How is this legal?

Raffles are likely not legal - thus why they call them waffles. Most states have requirements like being a non-profit or other status requirements to legally operate raffles.

 

[Wildreefs]

Capitalism.

It may import for $150 but how common are they? If people are willing to risk 21$, it works.

So technically I can get a high end fish. Set it to a waffle, now the fish is dead but the people don’t know that. I ship it dead, person says hey it’s doa, I apologize repeatedly and say I’ll refund your $21 fee right away, instantly refund them, yet I still have 2000 for a fish that was never alive anyway . Meaning I stand to make a 2000 percent product , and my wort case loss is handing $21 back

 

[TARHEEL78]

So technically I can get a high end fish. Set it to a waffle, now the fish is dead but the people don’t know that. I ship it dead, person says hey it’s doa, I apologize repeatedly and say I’ll refund your $21 fee right away, instantly refund them, yet I still have 2000 for a fish that was never alive anyway . Meaning I stand to make a 2000 percent product , and my wort case loss is handing $21 back

Yeah, you could do that but you'd be a scumbag if you did.

ETA: You'd lose your shipping cost too.

 

[Reefer Matt Verified Media Partner]

It is gambling and subject to the laws in where it is conducted. Taxes are to be paid as well but most “Waffles” are just illegal gambling.

 

[GK3]

So technically I can get a high end fish. Set it to a waffle, now the fish is dead but the people don’t know that. I ship it dead, person says hey it’s doa, I apologize repeatedly and say I’ll refund your $21 fee right away, instantly refund them, yet I still have 2000 for a fish that was never alive anyway . Meaning I stand to make a 2000 percent product , and my wort case loss is handing $21 back

Yes. All you’ve done is laid out the plan for a scam or fraud.

Ever been to a casino? How do you know the slot machine is truly random? Or let’s say you and I play a card game with a $1 million dollar jackpot, then neither of us win, very next hand deals the jackpot hand but the card shuffler malfunctions. They void the hand. They aren’t giving you and I our money back.

Point being yes, there are lots of ways to run scams, guess it’s trust that isn’t what they are doing. If it is a scam they’d likely only get away with it twice as the dead fish is almost certainly posted about.

 

[Wildreefs]

Yes. All you’ve done is laid out the plan for a scam or fraud.

Ever been to a casino? How do you know the slot machine is truly random? Or let’s say you and I play a card game with a $1 million dollar jackpot, then neither of us win, very next hand deals the jackpot hand but the card shuffler malfunctions. They void the hand. They aren’t giving you and I our money back.

Point being yes, there are lots of ways to run scams, guess it’s trust that isn’t what they are doing. If it is a scam they’d likely only get away with it twice as the dead fish is almost certainly posted about.

Think the point is being missed. Someone is making a ton of money illegally by basically selling a chance to get an animal, and if it falls thru, you lose 1 percent of total sale. Other places have to refund 100 percent of it. And I’m not doing it, I’m now a $c** bag, but someone marking a fish up from $150 to $2000 I surely would consider one

 

[Townes_Van_Camp]

Don't patronize poo head business.

 

[Raijin]

TSM is currently running a waffle (raffle) for a Madagascar flasher wrasse. 99 spots(entries) at $21 a spot, is about $2000 they will get from the “waffle”.

That fish imports for just about $150. If it dies on the person who wins it, that person gets there $21 back, yet company still keeps $1,980 from everyone else . How is this legal?

Reach out to them if you’re concerned, they have mention they are subject to their doa policy as store cred. If they were trying to scam why would they offer this?

 

[ReefChick0667]

So maybe the fish does import at $150, however that does not include the cost to ship, pickup, medicate, feed, quarantine for 30+ days nor the ones that died during the process.

The fish was waffled at ~$2,000 the same price it was listed on their website, so whether it was waffled or sold on their website, they were making the same amount… By the way, some retailers in Florida are selling them for $6,000 and TSM doesn’t seem to have trouble selling any fish as their “Available Now” is usually quite light on inventory.

Have you bothered to ask if they have a DOA policy on waffles??? I did… Their DOA policy applies! Has anyone complained here, Facebook, Google Reviews etc… I haven’t seen anything either.

If you have you been to their facility or dealt with TSM, you know those guys are one of the good guys in this hobby – they are fair and honest, so why are you even hinting at any dishonesty? Have you asked why they are even doing waffles? Maybe they are trying to make ends meet? Maybe they are offering livestock that 99% of people would never think of buying like a $2,000 wrasse.

Finally, if you don’t like the idea of a waffle, and many online retailers are running them and auctions, why not just move on? Ever play a Superbowl Block Pool?

Man, running a small business is hard enough and it's stir the poop posts like this is why good businesses go out of business and then you’ll be complaining there is no good places to shop for fish and coral.

 

[ReefChick0667]

Oh by the way... I also found this:

 

[jeffreytubb]

Capitalism.

It may import for $150 but how common are they? If people are willing to risk 21$, it works.

TSM is currently running a waffle (raffle) for a Madagascar flasher wrasse. 99 spots(entries) at $21 a spot, is about $2000 they will get from the “waffle”.

That fish imports for just about $150. If it dies on the person who wins it, that person gets there $21 back, yet company still keeps $1,980 from everyone else . How is this legal?

Why are you worried about the profit a company makes. As a consumer, you have a choice where you do business. They are providing myself annd other participants an opportunity to win a fish that I would never choose to splurge and buy. Price is only an issue in the absence of value. If you don’t feel the value is worth it to you then do business somewhere else.

 

[FUNGI]

I'm confused......if the winner gets a live fish, doesn't the company still make $$$$$? Whats the status of the fish have anything to do with it? Fish arrives DOA, winner gets his investment back....(or a new fish)

 

[ReefChick0667]

TSM is currently running a waffle (raffle) for a Madagascar flasher wrasse. 99 spots(entries) at $21 a spot, is about $2000 they will get from the “waffle”.

That fish imports for just about $150. If it dies on the person who wins it, that person gets there $21 back, yet company still keeps $1,980 from everyone else . How is this legal?

You sir are being a real tool with this thread.

 

[jayimsz]

TSM is currently running a waffle (raffle) for a Madagascar flasher wrasse. 99 spots(entries) at $21 a spot, is about $2000 they will get from the “waffle”.

That fish imports for just about $150. If it dies on the person who wins it, that person gets there $21 back, yet company still keeps $1,980 from everyone else . How is this legal?

I know TSM. They have been my go to LFS for months now and run a legit operation. I have participated in several waffles they ran and they have alway been run with integrity from what I can see. I guess you are just speculating here (which isn’t fair) but I can tell you from experience that they are trustworthy. They quarantine their livestock and everything I purchase from them is eating, healthy, and happy.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

@Wildreefs
I think everyone gets what you're trying to say. However, no one seems to care.

You pulled back a curtain that has already been pulled back... If this was a hobby that was controlled by hobbyist, people might've be up in arms over such egregious behavior.

I guess the way to view this are Christmas raffles, where 1 ticket can win a $1000 item. No one looks at how much money was spent on the tickets, theyre happy to buy $100 worth of tickets to try their luck at winning something big.

It's definitely a form of gambling that everyone understands the odds when purchasing tickets.

By the way everything that you have pointed out is a fair observation. Unfortunately, you're on the side of the minority.

I'm not sure if raffles are illegal, and if they are, changing the name to a breakfast pastry doesn't skirt the laws. Whether or not people are going to pick up their pitchforks and join you is yet to be seen, i wouldn't hold your breath though. But it is good to see a perspective that is divergent of the traditional echo chamber.