Want a small reef

jasonrusso · Oct 19, 2017

I currently have a 210 fowler so I'm not a beginner to saltwater, but I want to start a small "20 gallonish" reef.

What does everyone recommend? Should I get an all in 1 like a biocube or Jbj, or get a standalone tank, stand, etc.

There is a listing near me for a 14g biocube setup for a good price ($125), that would be on the small end.

My LFS has a really nice innovative marine complete setup but it is like $1200.

Bouncingsoul39 · Oct 19, 2017

Just depends on your budget and space you have for it. I'd stay closer to the 20-30 gallon range over something like the 14g Biocube. It just a tad more stable and easier to manage with a larger volume of water. Or you could just skip this step and go straight to converting your 210 into a full blown reef.

leahfiish · Oct 19, 2017

Depends on your goals. I would aim for 20 to 40 gallons for stability. Are you going to use a sump? If not I would at least get a tank with a false back to hide heaters and other equipment.

thaitopher · Oct 19, 2017

Get an all in one. The JBJ and NUVOs are really nice. I have a JBJ rimless 45. It has a really sleek look to it.

jasonrusso · Oct 19, 2017

leahfiish said:
Depends on your goals. I would aim for 20 to 40 gallons for stability. Are you going to use a sump? If not I would at least get a tank with a false back to hide heaters and other equipment.

I'd like to use a sump but that also adds to the cost. I was thinking like a 30 gallon cube.

jasonrusso · Oct 19, 2017

thaitopher said:
Get an all in one. The JBJ and NUVOs are really nice. I have a JBJ rimless 45. It has a really sleek look to it.

Explain the rimless to me. All the biocubes and JBJs have a top on them. Do you just take the top off and put the light on a mount?

I've read that the stock lights seem to leave a lot to be desired. Does that mean that if I wanted to use something like an Ai Prime I would need to take off the top?

thaitopher · Oct 19, 2017

jasonrusso said:
Explain the rimless to me. All the biocubes and JBJs have a top on them. Do you just take the top off and put the light on a mount?

I've read that the stock lights seem to leave a lot to be desired. Does that mean that if I wanted to use something like an Ai Prime I would need to take off the top?

A lot of tanks have a plastic rim on the top of the tanks. Rimless just tops off with glass and generally have no top, but the JBJ does come with two glass plates you can place on the top if you have any jumpers like I do. Here is a pic of my JBJ from a few months ago before putting on the glass top. You can definitely place an AI Prime LED on it.

jasonrusso · Oct 19, 2017

thaitopher said:
A lot of tanks have a plastic rim on the top of the tanks. Rimless just tops off with glass and generally have no top, but the JBJ does come with two glass plates you can place on the top if you have any jumpers like I do. Here is a pic of my JBJ from a few months ago before putting on the glass top. You can definitely place an AI Prime LED on it.

I have 2 cats so I am worried about things going into the tank as well, lol.

So you DO have to remove the stock lid if you want to use a better light?

thaitopher · Oct 19, 2017

jasonrusso said:
I have 2 cats so I am worried about things going into the tank as well, lol.

So you DO have to remove the stock lid if you want to use a better light?

Nope. There is no stock light or top for the the JBJ AIO 45.

Tahoe61 · Oct 19, 2017

The JBJ 45 RL does offer a nice glass lid for this tank. The Nuvo 20 also comes with a mesh lid. I have both tanks and a JBJ 28 gallon that comes with a lid cover. Personally I do not like the depth of the JBJ 45 back chambers. You can pick up a Nuvo 20 for $200.

jasonrusso · Oct 21, 2017

I stopped at my LFS earlier this week and he has a IM NUVO45 up and running and a Red Sea Reefer (40 gallon) set up but not running. After looking into it a bit more, I found the Red Sea Max C-130. This seems like it is a higher line biocube.

My research shows that maybe the Biocube has some longevity issues? The IM tanks have some quality issues? Is this right? I know the c-130 is much more expensive (there are 2 people selling NIB units near me and I am going to try to score a deal), but it seems like it is complete. It has good coral lights (CFL not LED for what it's worth), skimmer, light timer, power center, heater, etc.

If I was to get a rimless JBJ, after buying a stand and accessories, and a light I am in the $1K range anyway. I think I want to be in the 25-35 gallon range so the big cube, JBJ, c-130, NUVO 30 are all in my line of sight. I think If I was to build a system (and it has to have a flat back because it is going to be visible from 3 sides) with a rear sump or sump underneath it would cost me in the $1K range anyway.

Am I way off base here?

thaitopher · Oct 21, 2017

jasonrusso said:
I stopped at my LFS earlier this week and he has a IM NUVO45 up and running and a Red Sea Reefer (40 gallon) set up but not running. After looking into it a bit more, I found the Red Sea Max C-130. This seems like it is a higher line biocube.

My research shows that maybe the Biocube has some longevity issues? The IM tanks have some quality issues? Is this right? I know the c-130 is much more expensive (there are 2 people selling NIB units near me and I am going to try to score a deal), but it seems like it is complete. It has good coral lights (CFL not LED for what it's worth), skimmer, light timer, power center, heater, etc.

If I was to get a rimless JBJ, after buying a stand and accessories, and a light I am in the $1K range anyway. I think I want to be in the 25-35 gallon range so the big cube, JBJ, c-130, NUVO 30 are all in my line of sight. I think If I was to build a system (and it has to have a flat back because it is going to be visible from 3 sides) with a rear sump or sump underneath it would cost me in the $1K range anyway.

Am I way off base here?

You could get a 20 - 30 gallon AIO for about $250. If you added a light the total cost would really depend on the light. Some high quality lights could cost $300-$400. You could go cheaper if you only want LPS and get a Fluval sea LED or something like that for only about $150. If you add a skimmer that's another $150 so even with a 20 gallon you are looking to spend at least $550.

jasonrusso · Oct 21, 2017

thaitopher said:
You could get a 20 - 30 gallon AIO for about $250

Like a Biocube? Then the stand costs more, correct? That is why I am thinking more about a Red Sea. The lighting is not compromised and should grow LPS and SPS. If I want a good light, with the cube, light, and skimmer I am looking at about $750 without a stand. I can get a red sea NIB "used" for less than $1K.

thaitopher · Oct 21, 2017

jasonrusso said:
Like a Biocube? Then the stand costs more, correct? That is why I am thinking more about a Red Sea. The lighting is not compromised and should grow LPS and SPS. If I want a good light, with the cube, light, and skimmer I am looking at about $750 without a stand. I can get a red sea NIB "used" for less than $1K.

Red Sea doesn't come with a light does it?

JoshH · Oct 21, 2017

DO IT!!!!

The Red Sea Max C130 comes with a hood with PC bulbs installed. The only issue with the C130 is the skimmer, netoriously difficult to tune in which is why I did away with it right off the hop, other than that it's an awesome system.

Rakie · Oct 21, 2017

IMHO, get a real tank, with a sump. Just because it's small doesn't mean it wont eventually hold valuable corals, and odds are you're gonna be way more annoying upgrading your side tank down the road with all new everything instead of just buying a basic tank the first time.

I'd suggest something basic like an SCA Aquarium. Either a 50g cube or something along those lines. I know you want a "20 - 30" gallon, but that's always impractical, because 2 years later pretty darn close to 100% of those people buy a whole new everything. And then they're out the cost of 2 systems, plus starting over again.

If you can find a 20" cube, or feel comfy with something like a 20 Gallon Long (drilled with sump) then you'll be happy for a little while.

JoshH · Oct 21, 2017

Rakie said:
IMHO, get a real tank, with a sump. Just because it's small doesn't mean it wont eventually hold valuable corals, and odds are you're gonna be way more annoying upgrading your side tank down the road with all new everything instead of just buying a basic tank the first time.

I'd suggest something basic like an SCA Aquarium. Either a 50g cube or something along those lines. I know you want a "20 - 30" gallon, but that's always impractical, because 2 years later pretty darn close to 100% of those people buy a whole new everything. And then they're out the cost of 2 systems, plus starting over again.

If you can find a 20" cube, or feel comfy with something like a 20 Gallon Long (drilled with sump) then you'll be happy for a little while.

The OP already has a 210 gallon system, probably won't need an upgrade any time soon, at least I would hope not...

jasonrusso · Oct 21, 2017

JoshH said:
The OP already has a 210 gallon system, probably won't need an upgrade any time soon, at least I would hope not...

The cost of lighting, dosing chemicals, etc is what steers me away from a big reef tank. I want my big predator tank with my puffer, lion, angler, etc. Then I want my small pretty coral tank.

jasonrusso · Oct 21, 2017

JoshH said:
DO IT!!!! The Red Sea Max C130 comes with a hood with PC bulbs installed. The only issue with the C130 is the skimmer, netoriously difficult to tune in which is why I did away with it right off the hop, other than that it's an awesome system.

What did you do, did you add a sump?

What skimmer did you get, Tunze?

Rakie · Oct 21, 2017

JoshH said:
The OP already has a 210 gallon system, probably won't need an upgrade any time soon, at least I would hope not...

Yeah but a 20g AIO is out of room with 2 corals pretty much, and he has a 200g FOWLR that's not a reef. Big differences.

WHat if he decides 8 months down the road he wants SPS? While SPS can be done in a small tank, you typically garner better results with serious equipment. PC lights and a micro skimmer won't get you the best results.

From my experience -- You go small, you buy twice. I did the 12g biocube. THen I did the 29 biocube. Then I did the radions and T5's and high end skimmer and finally realized I was kidding myself, and got a real tank.

Now, if he wants to keep zoa's and other super, super simple stuff.. I would say to put that in his predator tank. They'll grow fine in anything more properly setup than a toilet. But if he wants to get into serious coral (which usually happens eventually) he's just gonna buy a whole new system a year or two down the road.