Wasn't Prepared for this -- Need Expert Advice on Controllers

[Salty Lemon]

My husband sold a bunch of his off-roading/car stuff today. (He has his hobbies and I have mine.) But he just walked in and asked me about these controller things I was telling him about for my aquarium and how about we go out and purchase what I need. I'm usually the queen of research when it comes to this stuff, but I was completely thrown off guard. I wasn't expecting to install one of these things for a year so I haven't even looked into it. I have a 210 gal tank with a 40 gallon sump. What do I need to get this started? Suggestions? I know there is a controller team which is awesome, but I can't think of their official name in order to do the hashtag thing. I'm still learning -- so it can't be a complex system. Thanks for your assistance.

 

[Crabs McJones]

All depends on your wants and needs. Apex and GHL are the two biggest names in aquarium controllers with the Reef PI following close behind. I personally use an apex and love it.

 

[Peace River]

My husband sold a bunch of his off-roading/car stuff today. (He has his hobbies and I have mine.) But he just walked in and asked me about these controller things I was telling him about for my aquarium and how about we go out and purchase what I need. I'm usually the queen of research when it comes to this stuff, but I was completely thrown off guard. I wasn't expecting to install one of these things for a year so I haven't even looked into it. I have a 210 gal tank with a 40 gallon sump. What do I need to get this started? Suggestions? I know there is a controller team which is awesome, but I can't think of their official name in order to do the hashtag thing. I'm still learning -- so it can't be a complex system. Thanks for your assistance.

What a great problem to have! Let's see if we can get some more help.

#controller #apex #reefsquad

FYI - here is a list of some of the most common R2R hashtags.

 

[Dsnakes]

I think @DarthSimon is a controller guy ;Writing

 

[vangvace]

The bigger question is what do you want to control or keep track of? Do you want to push a button to feed or prep for a waterchange? A little extra temperature security? Flow out of your return pump so you know when to clean it? Automated testing of the future? ;Droid;Vulcan

If buying new, I would look at the interfaces of Neptune and GHL and decide which you prefer. Both manufactures have a youtube channel that goes into their interface/programming/setup along with a healthy community here.

If you have a local community/stores/craigslist I would consider looking for a used apex classic with an energy bar to dip your toe into a controller at a substantial savings for today.

 

[HotRocks]

@rkpetersen is a controller guru as well.

 

[Auto-pilot]

If you just want to plug and chug I'd go with Apex / GHL. If you want to mess around with circuits and build your own Reef-Pi is a fun project and ALOT cheaper. It really just depends on what you want it to do and how much money you want to spend. I feel like Apex is the most expensive
Edit: I've been messing around with Reef-Pi because I'm poor and I love projects. I'm learning alot by building my own

 

[SuncrestReef]

Apex has probably the largest user base, with a broad support community (see https://forum.neptunesystems.com). GHL is more "industrial strength" but perhaps less consumer focused. There are several threads here on R2R debating which one is best (or worst).

I have an extensive Apex setup and have automated tons of things on my tank. I wouldn't want to run a tank without it. Here are some of the things my Apex does for me:

• Detect power outages to shut down non-critical devices to prolong power on my battery backup
• Control dual heaters in my sump, and a heater in my saltwater mixing station
• Control lighting schedules on my Radions, including moon lighting at night based on actual lunar phase
• Monitor water level in the refugium if chaeto clogs the drain pipe and turn off the pump to prevent overflows
• Adjust my Gyre for different flow rates throughout the day and night
• Control 2-part dosing
• Monitor water flow rate through my carbon & GFO reactors, as well as return pipe
• Turn off my UV sterilizer when water flow goes below 250 gallons/hour
• Shut off the skimmer when the Avast skimmate locker is full and send me an alert
• Clean the skimmer neck every 6 hours with the Avast Swabbie
• Control auto feeder when I'm away from home
• Shut down pumps and send an alert if a leak is detected in my sump cabinet or the carpet below my tank
• Daily automatic water changes
• Remote ATO pump in my garage mixing station feeds water to my tank in the living room
• Alert me when RO/DI tank is low, or too full
• Alert me when saltwater storage tank is too low, and shut down auto water change until full
• Turn on a cooling fan when temps are too high in summer
• Keep track of all water test results and produce graphs over time
• All alerts are sent to both email and text message

Obviously my setup includes several optional Apex modules beyond the base unit, but that's one of the things I like about it. You can automate as much or as little as you choose.

I am also publishing a weekly Apex tutorial series here on R2R's Article section, with a new topic posted each Friday: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/neptune-apex-programming-tutorials-part-1.685/

 

[leepink23]

@Ditto would be helpful if you go ghl route, @DarthSimon if you go apex. I personally own an apex and other than a few issues it’s been very good. I think if I was starting over I would go GHL, possibly because I like trying different things.

 

[Salty Lemon]

What a great problem to have! Let's see if we can get some more help.

#controller #apex #reefsquad

FYI - here is a list of some of the most common R2R hashtags.

Thank you. You are always so good to offer suggestions. It is much appreciated.

 

[TheGreatWave]

If you have to ask you probably don't need it.

 

[JoshH]

I will add that @Ditto has an excellent comparison between Apex and GHL here. It highlights everything each controller has to offer. I will add it might be slightly biased towards GHL but still a great read for someone considering both, fair warning, it's a long read.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/switching-controllers-from-apex-to-ghl.316106/

 

[Salty Lemon]

I made my husband pause "Game of Thrones" to respond to this. (It's our new thing.) So I want to say thank you to everyone above with your posts. Wow! I never expected such quick responses. I've been thinking about Apex because of the popularity. I really appreciate all of you who included links as well -- that is right up my alley. I'll be researching your information tomorrow (which I needed). Tonight I have to find out what happens next for the fight for the throne.

 

[Ditto]

First thank you @JoshH and @leepink23 for a tag

The switching controller thread that JoshH will provide insight to both controllers. Alas it is a long read (Was documenting as much as possible), but comparison charts exist within the thread that show the features of both controllers and some of the accessories of both. It really depends on what you are going to interface with and what your looking to achieve, GHL does some things Neptune Apex does not do, and Neptune Apex does some things that GHL does not. My thread provides insight into things I did on the controller, from heater Controls, to AWC, to ATO, to Skimmer Cleaning, to using 1-10V to control a return pump and adjust the flow of the return pump based on manifold reactors going online and coming offline while maintaining the same flow to the tank.

The build quality between the two is night and day, as stated by another one above GHL is industrial strength, based on a quality, reliability, stability and is manufactured in house by GHL in Germany.

I tell reefers to first determine what they are looking for, what is important to them, and then research a wealth of knowledge exisit now about both. The community for both controllers is great, always willing to answer questions and concerns!!

 

[DarthSimon]

Good Morning Tonya,

Honestly setting up an Apex system is rather easy right out of the box. In the Apex world, your 2 choices are the full Apex System or the Apex El. The EL is $200 cheaper and is missing a Salinity (Probe/Port) and Orp (Probe/Port) . It's also missing missing the 0-10v port which allows the apex to control external devices like Kessil LED's, Vario Pumps, etc. You can always add these features with add on modules later.

So to start you will be able to monitor key elements such as your Ph, Temp, (Salinity and Orp Full Version). Apex also gives you the ability to control all of your devices such as return pumps, heaters, power heads, lights ect. You will be using a platform called Apex Fusion where you will visibly see all of your Probe readings, outlets where your devices are plugged into and much more. Each Outlet will have a Digital Slide button where you can turn a device on or off, as well as have that button set to "Auto" where more advances programming can be done.

When I say Advanced, it's not as bad as one would thing. Simply as an example, You can take your heater for instance. You would set your heater to turn on at 78 degrees and off at 79 degrees. This kind of programming is super easy to set up.

If and when you decide to setup a controller, we are always here to help. You are never alone. Please Let us know how things work out.
I always reference the below video. It's a great way to introduce you to the world of controllers. I am not very familiar with GHL, at all. I can tell you Apex has a much broader market, user base and support group. As stated above by #Ditto one of my esteemed Control Advisor brothers, GHL does look to be very well made.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Tonya, before you spend any money, you really need to consider what this controller will be doing for you. I got a full system Apex for free from a friend who was getting out of the hobby. I even bought a couple of new parts for it. But when the time came to set it up... what was it really going to do for me that I hadn't already taken care of? Well there were a couple of things, but in reality, they were pretty small and inconsequential as far as I considered. So I sold it. Below is a list of what it can do and how I deal with it not having an Apex.

From SuncrestReef's list

• Detect power outages to shut down non-critical devices to prolong power on my battery backup... I don't even use a battery back up, just power out automatic bubblers.
• Control dual heaters in my sump, and a heater in my saltwater mixing station... never use a heater (SW Florida)
• Control lighting schedules on my Radions, including moon lighting at night based on actual lunar phase... my Photons control themselves
• Monitor water level in the refugium if chaeto clogs the drain pipe and turn off the pump to prevent overflows... my refugium is an overflow, so no drain to clog
• Adjust my Gyre for different flow rates throughout the day and night... I don't adjust day to night flow in the tanks
• Control 2-part dosing... my dosing pump is self controlled
• Monitor water flow rate through my carbon & GFO reactors, as well as return pipe... I don't run carbon or GFO
• Turn off my UV sterilizer when water flow goes below 250 gallons/hour... I don't run a UV sterilizer
• Shut off the skimmer when the Avast skimmate locker is full and send me an alert... my skimmer shuts itself off if the collection cup is full
• Clean the skimmer neck every 6 hours with the Avast Swabbie... I don't have one
• Control auto feeder when I'm away from home... my neighbor feeds the tank and looks after everything else
• Shut down pumps and send an alert if a leak is detected in my sump cabinet or the carpet below my tank... cool, how often does that happen... yeah, I know it can
• Daily automatic water changes... I like doing my own water changes as it helps me stay in touch with what's going on in my tank
• Remote ATO pump in my garage mixing station feeds water to my tank in the living room... my ATO controls itself
• Alert me when RO/DI tank is low, or too full... I make 45 gallons of RO/DI about once every 4 to 6 weeks
• Alert me when saltwater storage tank is too low, and shut down auto water change until full... I rarely store saltwater
• Turn on a cooling fan when temps are too high in summer... useful, but witl led lights and DC pumps, my tank never seems to get above 82F
• Keep track of all water test results and produce graphs over time... I keep track of mine too
• All alerts are sent to both email and text message... useful, if you need that kind of control

So just to be perfectly clear here, I'm not against controllers at all. I had one. But they do cost a substantial amount of money and they do take time to work with. don't kid yourself. And what do they really do for you. If you really like automation and/or really feel the need to have a computer watching over your system all the time, then go for it. I'm an old school reefer, I don't run a lot of sophisticated hardware as I like natural filtration, and I'm just not in love with computer automation. So I don't use a controller. But to those who do, that's cool and have fun.

 

[Salty Lemon]

Good Morning Tonya,

Honestly setting up an Apex system is rather easy right out of the box. In the Apex world, your 2 choices are the full Apex System or the Apex El. The EL is $200 cheaper and is missing a Salinity (Probe/Port) and Orp (Probe/Port) . It's also missing missing the 0-10v port which allows the apex to control external devices like Kessil LED's, Vario Pumps, etc. You can always add these features with add on modules later.

So to start you will be able to monitor key elements such as your Ph, Temp, (Salinity and Orp Full Version). Apex also gives you the ability to control all of your devices such as return pumps, heaters, power heads, lights ect. You will be using a platform called Apex Fusion where you will visibly see all of your Probe readings, outlets where your devices are plugged into and much more. Each Outlet will have a Digital Slide button where you can turn a device on or off, as well as have that button set to "Auto" where more advances programming can be done.

When I say Advanced, it's not as bad as one would thing. Simply as an example, You can take your heater for instance. You would set your heater to turn on at 78 degrees and off at 79 degrees. This kind of programming is super easy to set up.

If and when you decide to setup a controller, we are always here to help. You are never alone. Please Let us know how things work out.
I always reference the below video. It's a great way to introduce you to the world of controllers. I am not very familiar with GHL, at all. I can tell you Apex has a much broader market, user base and support group. As stated above by #Ditto one of my esteemed Control Advisor brothers, GHL does look to be very well made.

This was the first thing I watched this morning and and honestly -- I felt a huge weight off my shoulders. I was expecting this to be more complicated, but it was perfect for me to take a look at when I'm starting to research. Now I'm going to spending the morning reading the links and suggestions that the others have posted last night. Thank you @DarthSimon . This was a good start for me to see.

 

[DarthSimon]

Tonya,
The Apex ecosystem can be basic and go as advanced as you want. The basic configurations are easy to get started. In time if you want to do some of the more advanced applications like auto water changes, dosing ect we can help you.

 

[MabuyaQ]

I would start by compiling a list of all your current controllers and check what features you would gain/lose by investing in an aquarium computer.
Most devices nowadays already come with rather sophisticated controllers and sometimes even ecosystems that control multiple devices.
So a lot of people only need a light version of a controller to get some things centralized in one controller and add some missing features.
If your devices don't provide such controls already a full controller can be a smart investment especially if you don't always have plenty access to helping hands.

 

[User1]

Biggest tip or nugget of advise I can recommend is to make a list of items you want to control, what you want to monitor, and a budget. This will help guide you regardless of brand because you can see what they offer by default, expand ability, price, etc. Over the counter, off the shelf, you are looking at GHL and Neptune. Open source you are looking at Reef PI or Arduino (Reef Angel).

Make the list, check it twice, ask yourself about any future tank upgrades(size), equipment purchases, etc. It may help guide you with your selection. Best of luck!