Watch me kill SPS...

[Skep18]

What are your whites set at on your photons? I’m not well versed in those lights but @SeaDweller is

I have set them to the AB+ settings. If I recall, this is a 4-to-1 ratio of blues to whites. Intensity is set to achieve PAR levels stated in OP, 400 to 120 as highest and lowest respectively.

 

[Crustaceon]

.02ppm Po4 would make me nervous. I honestly believe .03ppm is riding razor’s edge as is and i’ve seen base recession at that number whereas I don’t at a number slightly below .1ppm. This is at 8 dkh with 5ppm nitrates in my own system.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Good point. I appreciate the feedback. I am not sure how I would go about testing this issue though. I guess my only remedies would be either to get all my source water from some place far away from my location or to just accept not having corals. If you or anyone has ideas to test this, I am all ears.

Also, is this something other reefers somewhat-commonly experience? I've not heard of other first hand accounts of this before myself.

I live in Houston, one of the most polluted cities in the country and I grow acros just fine with a 12 year old 4 stage ro/di. I do change the filters and membrane regularly though

 

[alton]

Your best bet is to find a local reefer who has some easy to grow corals and transplant those along with raising your peak times to 8 versus 4. Also with your par meter check levels to place your coral around 250 max versus 400. Unless you have a particular coral that needs max Par, most corals will handle 250 just fine.

 

[Hydrored]

I would set them in a place with 200-250 par and leave them, I also agree with Sailfin11 on the flow.
Edit: I will add that I have SPS growing great in 240 par, I actually found reducing the par has greatly improved them. My new tank is now 8 months old and I have learned flow is as important if not more than light, stability is key, leave corals alone, don't change too much at a time, and leave corals alone.

 

[Skep18]

I just read through your posts and it sounds like the perfect setup! I'm really stumped. I was able to think of a few things though.

1. Shipping: it sounds like you've got all your coral online so far. The stress from shipping is probably starting you off at a disadvantage. I'd go to your LFS and get some montipora digitata, birds nest, or pocillopora. These have been really hardy for me.

2. Frag rack? : I would place your new frags directly on the rock, glue them in, and leave them be. Having them on the edge of the tank may reduce light or play with the glass optics. Also, you're more likely to move them around which could irritate them.

3. Flow: from the pictures on day 15, you can see some stringy brown algae on the base of the frags and growing on the monti. Most of that should have pushed that off by water movement. By moving the corals onto the rockwork, you will probably remedy this.

One more possibility. If you use a standard refractometer, I'd double-check the calibration. Mine has sometimes been considerably off if I don't adjust every once in a while. Overall, your tank looks spot-on to me. Keep up with the water changes (they DO make a difference), and maybe get some LPS to tide you over this SPS hurdle. Best of luck!

First off, thank you for reading it all. I know its long.

1. I have recently gotten a handful of frags from local hobbyists. They are in QT. I will try them in the tank when they finish quarantine. In the past, I have ordered coral from at least 6 vendors including Jason Fox, Battle Corals, Fraghouse, Budmans and probably more I can't think of.

2. I have placed probably 20 frags on the rock in the past in an attempt to try this. They all, at varying levels, met the same fate. I've also left some on the rack in low light and left them untouched. No help.

3. I'm awaiting more poerheads in the mail now to try and get the flow up. My QT flow is a bit stronger than my DT. I'm thinking the corals may appreciate that. I'm not clear as to whether this would be enough to kill corals alone though. I plan on keeping the flow increasing until it pretty much kills my fish nonetheless, lol.

4. I use a refractometer with the BRS calibration solution. As of late, we check calbration every time. I'm not clear if 1ppt off can kill coral alone as well. I also have a digital salinity checker to double check things.

I have only fallen off the water chnages recently to try and get my nutrients up. However, as some such as @Copingwithpods point out, I guess its possible my water is the issue. My only hope would be the ROX carbon can purify the water in the tank maybe? This kinda leads to my OP where its really difficult to get any kinda advice on the forums as there are so many conflicting views and its hard if not impossible to communicate my setup via the internet.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I have set them to the AB+ settings. If I recall, this is a 4-to-1 ratio of blues to whites. Intensity is set to achieve PAR levels stated in OP, 400 to 120 as highest and lowest respectively.

I know I’ll get $&@% for this
But I don’t ever light acclimate acros. I only qt corals for a couple days where they get dipped a couple times, reglued and then they go straight into +300 par.

 

[Skep18]

Your best bet is to find a local reefer who has some easy to grow corals and transplant those along with raising your peak times to 8 versus 4. Also with your par meter check levels to place your coral around 250 max versus 400. Unless you have a particular coral that needs max Par, most corals will handle 250 just fine.

Thanks for the reply. I have some local spongodes and monti plate in QT now. I will try that when they finish QT.

Per previous reply, I've put at least 20 frags glued to rocks in the past. I didn't mention it but they were at roughly those PAR levels. Hadn't worked before but I can try it again.

I don't think I'll disrupt my current frags anymore as many claim "leaving things alone" is ideal. But if I get another batch and the local ones, I will put them on rocks and hope it ends up different this time.

I would set them in a place with 200-250 par and leave them, I also agree with Sailfin11 on the flow.

In the past, I've had them in very very high flow areas as well as lower flow areas. Also, the frag rack is on the glass and I run gyres. They get very smooth steady flow where they are. However, per past posts, I am getting more powerheads in.

 

[Skep18]

I know I’ll get $&@% for this
But I don’t ever light acclimate acros. I only qt corals for a couple days where they get dipped a couple times, reglued and then they go straight into +300 par.

Lol, no flame here. I have heard all ranges of acro experiences from, "never move them" to "gentle acclimation" to "I just break frags off, drop them on rocks and they grow!" to "I move frags all the time, no issues." While this is no fault of any one person, it just goes to make things more difficult to figure out which one is "right" if there is a right way... Nonetheless, in the thousands of dollars in frags I've killed, I think I've tried them all.

 

[dadnjesse]

I think 4 hours of full light is not long enough. My tank gets 12 hours with 2 hours ramp up and 2 hours down.

 

[Hugo Tait]

I had the same issue with my 10g quarantine. It was set up for a year +, stable levels and low nutrients for months. SPS frags added would do well for 3-10 weeks then basal-STN leading to overnight RTN. I believe the "crunchy" look occurs when the tissue is so thin that you can to see the skeletal structure underneath.

The one thing that (I believe) made a difference was nutrient level. I couldn't raise nutrients until I started feeding a LOT, dosed potassium nitrate and amino acids. That caused a huge dino out brake, then cyano, and now some hair algae and coralline. I felt that despite the age of the tank, this was the actual cycle that laid the foundation for a diverse and stable trophic structure. My tank is now full of SPS frags that are basing out with new growth tips.

I believe that a test for nitrite is the best method to determine bacterial efficiency, since this is often the bottle-neck in the nitrification process. However, with that many fish and a low nitrate reading I don't think this is the issue. IMO an ICP test may be worth it, just to put your mind at ease, but likely you're over-complicating the issue (as I definitely did). I have found that until my encrusting algae, sponges and other fauna really started to thrive, any SPS I added would wither and die.

Sounds woo-woo, but keep your simple parameters stable and the tank will show you when it's ready.

 

[Skep18]

.02ppm Po4 would make me nervous. I honestly believe .03ppm is riding razor’s edge as is and i’ve seen base recession at that number whereas I don’t at a number slightly below .1ppm. This is at 8 dkh with 5ppm nitrates in my own system.

Yea, I am working on heavy feeding to get these numbers up. I always figured, as much as I feed, the "nutrients" have to be in there though... In the past I've been able to maintain 0.02-0.05 though. Didn't seem to help. But I am working on that though.

I live in Houston, one of the most polluted cities in the country and I grow acros just fine with a 12 year old 4 stage ro/di. I do change the filters and membrane regularly though

Yea, seeing as gas masks use carbon to remove pollutants from the air, I think carbon will remove these harsh chemicals. I'm sure there are exceptions but I think it would be more heavily documented if there were pollution issues which modern reefing gear can't commonly remove.

 

[Skep18]

I think 4 hours of full light is not long enough. My tank gets 12 hours with 2 hours ramp up and 2 hours down.

I apoligize as I probably did not communicate this well in my OP. I run whites for probably 4hrs. I run high blues for probably 8-9hrs. My light schedule including ramping is 14hrs a day.

 

[Skep18]

I had the same issue with my 10g quarantine. It was set up for a year +, stable levels and low nutrients for months. SPS frags added would do well for 3-10 weeks then basal-STN leading to overnight RTN. I believe the "crunchy" look occurs when the tissue is so thin that you can to see the skeletal structure underneath.

The one thing that (I believe) made a difference was nutrient level. I couldn't raise nutrients until I started feeding a LOT, dosed potassium nitrate and amino acids. That caused a huge dino out brake, then cyano, and now some hair algae and coralline. I felt that despite the age of the tank, this was the actual cycle that laid the foundation for a diverse and stable trophic structure. My tank is now full of SPS frags that are basing out with new growth tips.

I believe that a test for nitrite is the best method to determine bacterial efficiency, since this is often the bottle-neck in the nitrification process. However, with that many fish and a low nitrate reading I don't think this is the issue. IMO an ICP test may be worth it, just to put your mind at ease, but likely you're over-complicating the issue (as I definitely did). I have found that until my encrusting algae, sponges and other fauna really started to thrive, any SPS I added would wither and die.

Sounds woo-woo, but keep your simple parameters stable and the tank will show you when it's ready.

Thank you for the testimony. This sounds a lot like what I have experienced. My rocks are covered in a dark green/brown coralline and I have increasing patches of purple. None of it is the aggressive plating style though.

I feel like i feed a lot already but I have started increasing my portions. I feed probably 2 to 5 times a day. I've dosed in the past to maintain nutrient levels but I'm hoping my current ability to get increased levels may help. I would think the frags could recover if in an ideal environment, however, I've not experienced success so Idk. I can only wait for the next frags to see if this helps...

I wishfully hear you on the waiting comment. I waited probably the last 6 months in letting it run on "cruise control" without adding anything but snails to try and let things mature. It was that much more disappointing to see the new frags meet the same fate.

 

[Crustaceon]

I went through the same issues of keeping phosphates up and eventually started a daily routine of dosing a little bit of seachem flourish phosphorus to bring it from zero to .04. Each day.... gone. It took me a little over a week of burning through overpriced hanna packets but I think I finally managed to sufficiently load up my rocks and sand with phosphates to hold a stable number.

 

[Skep18]

I went through the same issues of keeping phosphates up and eventually started a daily routine of dosing a little bit of seachem flourish phosphorus to bring it from zero to .04. Each day.... gone. It took me a little over a week of burning through overpriced hanna packets but I think I finally managed to sufficiently load up my rocks and sand with phosphates to hold a stable number.

This has been my experience too. I would dose sodium triphosphate to get levels up and within hours, it would drop to half. I was happy to see just last week, my raising of nitrates has seemingly allowed my phosphate to come up. I am hopeful this will help.

That said, a year ago I didn't seem to have nutrient issues as far as them being too low. Its very possible I am running through multiple issues and that and then has nothing to do with these frags now. However, somewhere in the last year, my tank has drop nutrients.

Like you said, I am testing phosphates daily now with a Hanna checker. I am seeing daily phosphates now between 0.02 and 0.08ppm maybe. Not sure how long it'll take and/or if its wishful thinking to thing unhealthy frags can recover. Time and money will tell if it can help the next batch of frags.

 

[bobssecrtsn]

I had had the same issue as you. Sps would look fine and after weeks it would look like they lost color and STN. I thought I was feeding lots but decided to up my feeding. I was doing 2 cubes of mysis a day. Now I’m up to 6 cubes and 3-4 pellets serving a day. I have 19 (now 21) fishes in my 140 and by far the corals looks dang good. It’s been over a month with growth so fingers crossed !

with increase feeding you must have filtration that can keep up with it !

 

[Crustaceon]

This has been my experience too. I would dose sodium triphosphate to get levels up and within hours, it would drop to half. I was happy to see just last week, my raising of nitrates has seemingly allowed my phosphate to come up. I am hopeful this will help.

That said, a year ago I didn't seem to have nutrient issues as far as them being too low. Its very possible I am running through multiple issues and that and then has nothing to do with these frags now. However, somewhere in the last year, my tank has drop nutrients.

Like you said, I am testing phosphates daily now with a Hanna checker. I am seeing daily phosphates now between 0.02 and 0.08ppm maybe. Not sure how long it'll take and/or if its wishful thinking to thing unhealthy frags can recover. Time and money will tell if it can help the next batch of frags.

I think you’ll be fine as long as your alk/cal/mg stay stable and you keep hammering food through the system. Just seeing po4 on a test kit is a reason to celebrate. Everything else is relatively easy to maintain.

 

[GeoSquid]

Do you have any algae growing in the system? From the video everything looks spotless. I would think you would be getting a little algae of some kind here and there. What are you using for supplements? Have you tried any soft corals other than zoes?

 

[Skep18]

I had had the same issue as you. Sps would look fine and after weeks it would look like they lost color and STN. I thought I was feeding lots but decided to up my feeding. I was doing 2 cubes of mysis a day. Now I’m up to 6 cubes and 3-4 pellets serving a day. I have 19 (now 21) fishes in my 140 and by far the corals looks dang good. It’s been over a month with growth so fingers crossed !

with increase feeding you must have filtration that can keep up with it !

Thank you for the feedback. I have been feeding more but I will continue to increase I guess. My fish are just gonna have to gain CVOID-19 isolation weight with me, lol.