Water Change During a Cycle?

Shep · Jan 1, 2015

My new tank is still going through a cycle but I need to hurry up and get my livestock transferred over (I took most of the LR out of the tank so it has very little biofiltration left), would a water cycle help to get my levels lower or would it be pointless?

saltyphish · Jan 1, 2015

I have read water changes during a cycle is bad. The article claimed it could slow or stall your cycle. It could also result in another cycle once livestock is added if bacteria levels were not allowed to populate enough. I just waited it out on my tank. If your tank does not have a sufficient bacteria population to support your livestock you could risk having the same concerns you currently have in your old tank. If you have to do it I would just test my tank frequently and have fresh made saltwater ready for changes and use something like prime. But you would have to do that in your current tank as well. Which one would be easier to maintain? I don't know how far along your tank has cycled or what your current parameters are so it is all speculation.

brandon429 · Jan 1, 2015

if you will post some pics of your cycling live rock, that alone can help us answer your question. you may not need to be in a cycle, depending on the benthic growth and calcification details the live rock pics w show. need a brief history of the live rock, where it came from and how it was transported as well.

Im not sure if it applies here until we get pics, but there has been a 20 yr misnomer on web threads that all live rock systems must cycle yet on every pico reef I have online for 10 yrs none of them cycled and had coral on day 1, due to the calcification details the live rocks in my vids show. I wasnt using bone white new rock, I was using cured rock and I simply didnt kill it on the way home. I had sps frags on day one, now they have taken over my pico and have almost killed it by blocking out the light.

pics matter hugely in these kinds of threads, not test results. api likes to show .25 ammonia in most cases

if you have bone white rocks, the water change mid cycle can indeed slow down but never kill or stop it, cycles happen when you add water and thats it (because contaminations we aren't factoring become food and inoculum) the -speed- at which they happen is affected by our bottle bacteria or seeding, ammonia levels etc

if your live rock has any coralline on it, nope the wc wont hurt you can do nine of them.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 1, 2015

Are you monitoring ammonia?

Shep · Jan 1, 2015

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Are you monitoring ammonia?

I am, using the API kiet it reads abour .5ppm. as for the history of the rock, it was set up in my old tank for a year and after filling up the new tank with FSW I moved it over along with adding some new dry rock. The old rock looks like it did in the old tank but the new rock still looks pretty white. Also I have a HoB refugium with some cheato but the CFL bulb I was using broke so it has been without light for a few days as I wait for the new one to get here, could that be causing any issues?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jan 1, 2015

You need to wait for ammonia to drop. A water change will not speed up when you can safely add fish.

143MPCo · Jan 1, 2015

Hey Shep, I can only speak to what I have done... I have cycled 4 system now, 5 if you count a friends tank that I a baby sat for almost a year... I've never done a water change until I see NO3 levels on the decline, and even then very small, I mean like 5% a week or less... on my own systems I do 1-gallon a day... I had a massive algae issue starting early last yr, and although I can't prove it, changing from big 20-gallon water changes to 1-gallon a day, has helped stabilize my system (algae is almost gone, and I changed nothing else and don't run GFO)... I think it was David Saxby that said "we don't keep fish, we keep water" and the more I think of it the more I feel he is 100% right... while most might disagree and say live rock is the real filter in our tanks, I would say water is what allows the bacteria to grow and become abundant enough to provide adequate filtration within the live rock...

brandon429 · Jan 1, 2015

from pics I wanted to take a look at fish bioloading, see if the unknown ammonia levels are overstocking (not likely) or from freshly kicked up organic stores during the move (transient)

based on just search returns alone from "api always shows .25" it makes me think api simply indicates some presence but the amnt is unknown or that we interpret colors differently and in quite a variation. after neutralizing the water with prime, lots of those threads have api registering some ammonia but it wasnt the dangerous form its little details like that which make me inquire about api readings.

when I run the same searches for salifert for example, the outcomes are shocking not counting outlier testimonies. in raw bulk the two search returns are starkly clear about how reliable .25's and .5s can be

pics man

i trust pics and live rock history over api readings such

your matured live rock is able to handle a huge bioload, you killed no bacteria of significance in that transfer. if you imported or disturbed some pockets of waste and the reading is real i personally would speed up the cycle time to true zero free ammonia by locating and cleaning that source.

so, what is your ammonia source, have you been adding liquid ammonia? many cycle threads do that, just wondering if raw ammonia was added.

also looking in pics for benthic details like expanded fanworms. can't count how many for sure ammonia threads show tiny little open fanworms all over, they dont open in .5 ~ there are so many valuable details from pics

Shep · Jan 1, 2015

brandon429 said:
from pics I wanted to take a look at fish bioloading, see if the unknown ammonia levels are overstocking (not likely) or from freshly kicked up organic stores during the move (transient)

based on just search returns alone from "api always shows .25" it makes me think api simply indicates some presence but the amnt is unknown or that we interpret colors differently and in quite a variation. after neutralizing the water with prime, lots of those threads have api registering some ammonia but it wasnt the dangerous form its little details like that which make me inquire about api readings.

when I run the same searches for salifert for example, the outcomes are shocking not counting outlier testimonies. in raw bulk the two search returns are starkly clear about how reliable .25's and .5s can be

pics man i trust pics and live rock history over api readings such

your matured live rock is able to handle a huge bioload, you killed no bacteria of significance in that transfer. if you imported or disturbed some pockets of waste and the reading is real i personally would speed up the cycle time to true zero free ammonia by locating and cleaning that source.

so, what is your ammonia source, have you been adding liquid ammonia? many cycle threads do that, just wondering if raw ammonia was added.

also looking in pics for benthic details like expanded fanworms. can't count how many for sure ammonia threads show tiny little open fanworms all over, they dont open in .5 ~ there are so many valuable details from pics

I'll get some pics when I can, I don't have fan worms but i do see stomata snails cruising around lol and no I did not add any kind of liquid ammonia

brandon429 · Jan 1, 2015

thats really good detail, it shows you have a thriving community of animals and the water change is needed to not kill them, if, the level was accurate and there was any. so now the question becomes what happens if you dont do a wc

more benthics die but only if the reading is right

if you want to preserve the life on the rock you migrated you need to be doing wc, and dont stock above what those aged rocks can nitrify

the barren rocks will take on the benthics of the aged rocks in time, no ammonia is necessary in this system. you have a blend of living animals who hate ammonia, so lets ensure there is none imo. i strongly bet there is no to low free ammonia unless you have directly added it for the purposes of cycling, like what is done for dry start systems (dr tims and cleaning ammonia for ex)