Water change too much?

NormanB

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The reason I'm asking, I recently read here that stated doing less frequent or lower volume water changes can slow dinos. The article even stated that stopping water changes had the most positive effect on stopping dinos.

So, currently I'm changing 10g/week on an 80g total volume system. I see a touch of dinos here and there and wondered...Am I changing too much water.

Should I change the volume or frequency?

System is 3 years old, all parameters look good.

The big ones.

pH 8-8.1
Alk 3.5-4.0 meq/l
NO3 2 ppm
PO4 0.04-0.05 ppm

Thanks for your thoughts!!
 
Dinos are the easiest thing in the reef tank, to overcome. Your system is literally telling you something - it's as simple as listening.

If you test your tank - you'll see what the issue is. (If you did - then you know the issue). You don't need a microscope.....or a support group - just need paitence and an understanding of your system.

Because your system is unique to you - an no one else.....only you can manage your nutrient export and management.

REMEMBER, once dinos appear - they will always be present...in the system. As soon as nutrients bottom out again - they'll come right back. You need to keep your systems nutrients at a healthy point.

Your tank is starving.

Now...that all being said, 9/10 times - Dinos are basically a LACK of nutrients. There are certain strains that thrive with misbalance or high nutrients. Again, this is where testing your tank, is key.

Corals, like fish; need food. Even a FOWLR tank.....need nutrients. Aquariums...are no different than people. You wouldn't be too happy....if you were hungry ;)

You don't need to dose/add a No3 or Po4 additive, to bring up your nutrients. Doing "black outs" or using chemicals and medias.....are a band-aid solution. You need to address the cause - until you do, you'll keep facing the problem. Remember....your LFS, companies like BRS - they want you to treat issues with chemicals and medias.....its how they make money ;)

There are much....much easier (and cheaper) ways, to manage low nutrients.

Your nutrients - it's very simple.

1. Start by removing any media - take it out! Your tank is starving.....it wants food. Media - is sucking up, what little nutrients are there.

2. Stop or reduce WCs - again, starving tank.

3. Put your skimmer and/or refugium on a timer - keep in mind, if you don't have enough surface agitation....the lack of skimmer, to oxygenate the water - will kill your fish (I've done it).

4. Just feed more - fish food OR coral. Corals....eat what fish eat. Coral foods.....are simply a bonus. No ones dosing Reef roids, in the ocean ;)

As an absolute....last resort - dose in NO3/PO4 - but again.....this is remote and honestly, a waste of money. Very rarely.....if you follow 1-4, would you ever need, to dose in chemicals to increase your nutrients.

Your system....is exporting nutrients well - too well. For now - remember, that may change. Reef tanks...are constantly growing and evolving - dinos one week....GHA the next. Things can change....quickly, if we rush solutions.

Make slow....and methodical changes. Don't change to much - too fast.....or again, you'll end up with issues. Take it slow and steady - and you'll be solid. Just gotta learn your tank and it's biological system
 
Me....haven't done a WC in 3 years.

I dose - and system exports nutrients on its own.

Water changes should serve a purpose - have a reason. If you have neither....question why you need to do WCs in the first place ;)
 
Thanks for your thoughts.

I don't do anything to reduce NO3 other than skim and filter sock. No additives to reduce it. PO4 is a different story, I use a media to keep it at levels as posted above.

Only thing, if I let PO4 rise then all heck breaks loose and GHA everywhere.

So, I'm danged if I do and danged if I don't.
 
Above I was asked why I do water changes.

One main reason is to replenish trace elements, etc. that I don't dose.
 
Dinos are the easiest thing in the reef tank, to overcome. Your system is literally telling you something - it's as simple as listening.

If you test your tank - you'll see what the issue is. (If you did - then you know the issue). You don't need a microscope.....or a support group - just need paitence and an understanding of your system.

Because your system is unique to you - an no one else.....only you can manage your nutrient export and management.

REMEMBER, once dinos appear - they will always be present...in the system. As soon as nutrients bottom out again - they'll come right back. You need to keep your systems nutrients at a healthy point.

Your tank is starving.

Now...that all being said, 9/10 times - Dinos are basically a LACK of nutrients. There are certain strains that thrive with misbalance or high nutrients. Again, this is where testing your tank, is key.

Corals, like fish; need food. Even a FOWLR tank.....need nutrients. Aquariums...are no different than people. You wouldn't be too happy....if you were hungry ;)

You don't need to dose/add a No3 or Po4 additive, to bring up your nutrients. Doing "black outs" or using chemicals and medias.....are a band-aid solution. You need to address the cause - until you do, you'll keep facing the problem. Remember....your LFS, companies like BRS - they want you to treat issues with chemicals and medias.....its how they make money ;)

There are much....much easier (and cheaper) ways, to manage low nutrients.

Your nutrients - it's very simple.

1. Start by removing any media - take it out! Your tank is starving.....it wants food. Media - is sucking up, what little nutrients are there.

2. Stop or reduce WCs - again, starving tank.

3. Put your skimmer and/or refugium on a timer - keep in mind, if you don't have enough surface agitation....the lack of skimmer, to oxygenate the water - will kill your fish (I've done it).

4. Just feed more - fish food OR coral. Corals....eat what fish eat. Coral foods.....are simply a bonus. No ones dosing Reef roids, in the ocean ;)

As an absolute....last resort - dose in NO3/PO4 - but again.....this is remote and honestly, a waste of money. Very rarely.....if you follow 1-4, would you ever need, to dose in chemicals to increase your nutrients.

Your system....is exporting nutrients well - too well. For now - remember, that may change. Reef tanks...are constantly growing and evolving - dinos one week....GHA the next. Things can change....quickly, if we rush solutions.

Make slow....and methodical changes. Don't change to much - too fast.....or again, you'll end up with issues. Take it slow and steady - and you'll be solid. Just gotta learn your tank and it's biological system
Well said my friend.
 
Op your system is up 3 years; not implying you are a new reefer; just anyone that comes across that good advice post :).

Maybe you can simply suck those dinos out in the few spots they're showing up at this point? But as suggested take a step back and say why are they collecting here all of the sudden, something with flow changed, etc?
 
hasnt been mentioned: go look at the 465 page dinos thread up top in the nuisance forum

lack of nutrients may be 1 factor, but about 45% of those tanks tradeoff dinos for MASSIVE gha infestations and cyano after they start messing with nutrients

is adding nutrients to beat dinos a win> depends on how much we like the alternate invasions.

nobody, nobody, nobody has a defined method for beating dinos or we'd see a clean link to it showing reefs getting fixed without tradeoff wrecks.

it is amazing that in any common nitrate/phosphate test kit thread, brand names range wildly in reading agreement across a given sample

nitrate outcomes range 100 ppm in some threads between salifert, api, red sea, 50 ppm variance is even more common and expected. someone thinks they are at zero, then they dose, and they were already at 100 before dosing more...who knows where they land.

but when making core tank decisions, we have reefers believe their test kits without question.

nobody is responding to the actual levels they think they have, it's all guessing.
 
Water changes that are frequent (more than once per week) is a waste of money.

People see water changes as a means of exporting nutrients (which is true). But often, people don't understand that water changes replace elements consumed by life in the tank.

A water changes that occur more than once per week is removing elements that have yet to be consumed. And that's a waste.
 
OK, the dinos are not a real problem, so perhaps the main thrust of this thread is...

Is weekly 12% water changes in my 80 gallon system too much?
 
Did tiny (5-10 gallon) changes a day on ~ 650 gallons of volume. Not sure if I really did anything, but felt better about myself ;)

Didn't think I was really losing anything beneficial from the tank and some fresh/cleanly made water couldn't hurt.
 
no its not too much, some folks do 100% or 90% changes on any sized system. my own nano is 16 years old and only gets 100% changes

how much you change has no % impact on dinos. it's purely made up to tell folks that water changes causes dinos.

I have a 50 page thread where all we do is 100% water changes on people's tanks/official sand rinse thread/zero dinos outbreaks afterwards. that's a completely made up rule, much like the made up rule of a stuck cycle/no ammonia control.
 
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OK, the dinos are not a real problem, so perhaps the main thrust of this thread is...

Is weekly 12% water changes in my 80 gallon system too much?

No, people do 100% changes on pico reefs. 12% is fine.

You shouldn't get massive GHA from PO4 above 0.05... seems off to me... my last PO4 was 0.61... so massive amounts higher and I have the tiniest amount of cyano in one spot.

Seems like you might be lacking in CUC or maybe flow... or diversity... or something... PO4 isn't the only thing that leads to GHA as many high nutrient tanks don't have issues with it.
 
your best bet to fix dinos is a rip clean then installing a huge $$ UV sterilizer after, in the clean condition.
 
My 200-gallon system has been up and running for 20 months no with essentially no water changes. I run a UV sterilizer and I've never had cyano, dinos or even GHA. Not once. I have 50 fish that receive about 6-8x daily feedings and my nitrates are around 30-35ppm, so the tank is not "lightly" stocked by any means (most likely overstocked).
 
and its full of perfect healthy corals too
 

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