Water change

BlackPanther · Feb 9, 2020

Hello, reefers,

I am reading about water change and I have two questions:
first, If I use a dosage pump to keep good and sufficient parameters for corals, do I still need to do a water change?
Second, If I need to, I was wondering whether I should turn off the dosage pump after I do the water change or no?

Thank you!

Quietman · Feb 9, 2020

Many discussions on water changes and if they're needed or how to minimize posted here. I'm not going to re-debate all that as there hasn't been much new that I'm aware of.

However, I think as a practice more reefers are more successful doing 10% weekly water changes that first year then not. After that, I think reefers will make adjustments as they see fit.

Dosing does not usually add all the required elements needed for a reef tank compared to the a good quality (and probably all) salt mixes.

W1ngz · Feb 9, 2020

Disadvantages: more work

Advantages:
Trace elements. There's something like 70 different elements in seawater. Some are only used in miniscule quantities by the livestock. I suppose you might be, but I doubt you're dosing everything the tank needs.
If you have sand, you'll want to clean a patch of it each week to keep the sand clean. If you're not, you still want to get in there and suck up the piles of stuff that accumulate on the bottom glass.

Dosing pump: no, don't turn it off. You should be adding water that already more or less matches the parameters you're trying to keep.

X-37B · Feb 9, 2020

I too would recommend water changes of 10% per week if you are new to the hobby.
Read up and study the no water change method/system until you understand it and see if it is for you.
Dosing should stay the same if you know the tanks chemical consumption.
How big is the tank and what do you dose?
If the tank is small you can get by with water changes only and not have to dose. Let us know!

BlackPanther · Feb 9, 2020

W1ngz said:
Disadvantages: more work

Advantages:
Trace elements. There's something like 70 different elements in seawater. Some are only used in miniscule quantities by the livestock. I suppose you might be, but I doubt you're dosing everything the tank needs.
If you have sand, you'll want to clean a patch of it each week to keep the sand clean. If you're not, you still want to get in there and suck up the piles of stuff that accumulate on the bottom glass.

Dosing pump: no, don't turn it off. You should be adding water that already more or less matches the parameters you're trying to keep.

I see. But isn't not turning off the dosing pump will add more elements besides the elements which are already added by the salt? or more is not a problem, only less is a problem?

90's reefer said:
I too would recommend water changes of 10% per week if you are new to the hobby.
Read up and study the no water change method/system until you understand it and see if it is for you.
Dosing should stay the same if you know the tanks chemical consumption.
How big is the tank and what do you dose?
If the tank is small you can get by with water changes only and not have to dose. Let us know!

My tank is 280 gallons and I am using a local brand which includes this :

INGREDIENT:
ALFA: Calcium chloride, Magnesium chloride, Strontium carbonate, Rubidium iodate
BETA: Sodium carbonate, Potassiumiodide, Potassium Chloride
GAMA: Potassium Bromide, Ammonium nitrate, Boricacid, D-Glucose, Potassium phosphate dibasic, Sodium Fluoride, Magnesium Sulfate
Minor Element: Lithium, Beryllium, Aluminum, Silicon, Titanium, Vanadium, Chromium, Manganese, Iron, Cobalt, Nickel, Copper, Zinc, Gallium, Germanium, Arsenic, Selenium, Zirconium, Molybdenum, Silver, Cadmium, Antimony, Cesium, Barium , Lanthanum, Cerium, Praseodymium, Neodymium, Samarium, Europium.

what do you think?

lapin · Feb 9, 2020

No iodine for 1.
Not that your corals will need any, there maybe more things .

X-37B · Feb 9, 2020

In my nano I did water changes and added 2 part then stopped doing water changes and added trace elements for 1+ years no issues. Actually better growth with no water changes.
My 2 part was less when I did water changes.
If doing water changes just monitor big 3 and do not stop dosing.
On my 120 dosed esv-b 2 part for 6 months with DSR trace.
This is a no water change system.
The esv is a very complete much like yours.
I now run a carx with manmade media so only adding calcium and alk.
Still dose DSR trace which is magnesium, potasium, sulphate, boron, iodine, and manganese.
I also dose esv strontium weekly.
Test for big 3 and very stable.
Test alk weekly the other 2 monthly.
Test for strontium potasium and iodide monthly.
Currently only adding 3ml of trace a day and 3 ml of strontium a week.
I run a modified version of Glenn Fongs no water change system.
So far after 7 months and no water changes my system is stable and growing very well.
Check out Glenn Fong for more info on his systems. He does not run a carx but my system does.
Here is a pic of my tank I just took.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Feb 10, 2020

Thus article shows what different size water changes can and cannot accomplish. I think they are worth doing to control things you likely do not measure.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php

BlackPanther · Feb 10, 2020

lapin said:
No iodine for 1.
Not that your corals will need any, there maybe more things .

I am afraid that I didn't totally understood what you meant

90's reefer said:
In my nano I did water changes and added 2 part then stopped doing water changes and added trace elements for 1+ years no issues. Actually better growth with no water changes.
My 2 part was less when I did water changes.
If doing water changes just monitor big 3 and do not stop dosing.
On my 120 dosed esv-b 2 part for 6 months with DSR trace.
This is a no water change system.
The esv is a very complete much like yours.
I now run a carx with manmade media so only adding calcium and alk.
Still dose DSR trace which is magnesium, potasium, sulphate, boron, iodine, and manganese.
I also dose esv strontium weekly.
Test for big 3 and very stable.
Test alk weekly the other 2 monthly.
Test for strontium potasium and iodide monthly.
Currently only adding 3ml of trace a day and 3 ml of strontium a week.
I run a modified version of Glenn Fongs no water change system.
So far after 7 months and no water changes my system is stable and growing very well.
Check out Glenn Fong for more info on his systems. He does not run a carx but my system does.
Here is a pic of my tank I just took.

Thanks for the information, Actually, it's been 4 months now since I set up my aquarium and everything is stable, I was wondering if I really need a water change. I don't wanna mess the things up

I'll keep reading some more about it, Thank a lot

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Thus article shows what different size water changes can and cannot accomplish. I think they are worth doing to control things you likely do not measure.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php

Long read, I'll check it

Thank you!

Intense37754 · Feb 10, 2020

That link is good reading for sure.

I remember not to long ago a member on here made a valid point when it came to water changes and that our fish live in the water that carries waste. After thinking about that, no matter how much filtration is used will all their waste ever be removed?

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
Thus article shows what different size water changes can and cannot accomplish. I think they are worth doing to control things you likely do not measure.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-10/rhf/index.php

Randy Holmes-Farley · Feb 10, 2020

Intense37754 said:
That link is good reading for sure.

I remember not to long ago a member on here made a valid point when it came to water changes and that our fish live in the water that carries waste. After thinking about that, no matter how much filtration is used will all their waste ever be removed?

Im not sure what you mean by waste, but I don’t think fish waste is the main reason I’d change water In most reef tanks.

Scrubber_steve · Feb 10, 2020

BlackPanther said:
Second, If I need to, I was wondering whether I should turn off the dosage pump after I do the water change or no?

No, don't turn it off. The Doser's job is to maintain levels of cal, mag & alk, not raise them.

BlackPanther · Feb 10, 2020

Scrubber_steve said:
No, don't turn it off. The Doser's job is to maintain levels of cal, mag & alk, not raise them.

I got it, thank you =)

Intense37754 · Feb 10, 2020

I was reading the replies and forgot that the original message mentioned nothing of fish and only corals. I was referring to fish waste as in pee and poop. Corals and CUC might consume some but I can’t imagine everything getting completely filtered and removed. Was more of a question to see others thoughts/opinions or if there were any scientific findings

Randy Holmes-Farley · Feb 10, 2020

Intense37754 said:
I was reading the replies and forgot that the original message mentioned nothing of fish and only corals. I was referring to fish waste as in pee and poop. Corals and CUC might consume some but I can’t imagine everything getting completely filtered and removed. Was more of a question to see others thoughts/opinions or if there were any scientific findings

Nearly everything in fish food is later taken back up by organisms, since that is what fish food is.
Most trace elements (e.g., iron) deplete over time rather than accumulate from foods. Accumulating trace elements are more likely to be from other sources, such as additives, the salt mix, metal corroding in the water, etc.