Water changes and questions

[doubleshot00]

New tank just got over its cycle. 5 fish were added.
No sump, im using a fluval 407.

Local shop set everything up and filled it. He said maybe after a month you should do a water change and add the skimmer.

Does that sound right? I trust his judgment just seems everyone else is always changing water. Is it because the tank is new. Thats the problem no info out there about what you should do after the cycle. Idk

Im nervous to do anything really. Lol.

 

[Idech]

If your parameters are all good, I wouldn't worry about doing a water change for a while. But I would definitely be testing a lot, because you’ve added 5 fish at the same time and if your bacteria population isn’t big enough, you will have ammonia problems, which can kill fish.

I would test every day for the first week, then twice a week and then stop if everything is good.

Just be be ready to do a water change if there is any ammonia.

 

[Dom]

New tank just got over its cycle. 5 fish were added.
No sump, im using a fluval 407.

Local shop set everything up and filled it. He said maybe after a month you should do a water change and add the skimmer.

Does that sound right? I trust his judgment just seems everyone else is always changing water. Is it because the tank is new. Thats the problem no info out there about what you should do after the cycle. Idk

Im nervous to do anything really. Lol.

Slow down.

We do water changes in the hobby for two reasons:
1. Nutrient Export.
2. Replenishment of elements consumed by the tank.

Faithful, weekly 20% water changes will go a long way in helping you have a thriving tank. But be sure to use RODI water with your salt mix.

I'm a bit concerned about the advice you're getting from your "local shop".

 

[pecan2phat]

The reason why most reefers will do a water change after the initial cycle is because all the ammonia from the nitrogen cycle has converted to nitrate and the water change will dilute the nitrate.

 

[Dom]

The reason why most reefers will do a water change after the initial cycle is because all the ammonia from the nitrogen cycle has converted to nitrate and the water change will dilute the nitrate.

It isn't diluting the nitrate. Water changes remove the nitrate. It's why we call it 'nutrient export'.

 

[pecan2phat]

Well you know what I meant.

 

[doubleshot00]

If your parameters are all good, I wouldn't worry about doing a water change for a while. But I would definitely be testing a lot, because you’ve added 5 fish at the same time and if your bacteria population isn’t big enough, you will have ammonia problems, which can kill fish.

I would test every day for the first week, then twice a week and then stop if everything is good.

Just be be ready to do a water change if there is any ammonia.

Ok ill test later today. If the ammonia is high i should do a water change?

 

[doubleshot00]

The reason why most reefers will do a water change after the initial cycle is because all the ammonia from the nitrogen cycle has converted to nitrate and the water change will dilute the nitrate.

Thank you for this. As i said before there is not guidelines after you add your fish.

 

[LiveFreeAndReef]

It isn't diluting the nitrate. Water changes remove the nitrate. It's why we call it 'nutrient export'.

Well it is diluting the nitrate unless you're doing a 100% water change, correct?

 

[New&no clue]

Thats the problem no info out there about what you should do after the cycle. Idk

The majority of this forum is information about what to do after cycling a tank.

Also, while LFS can be good, they are there to make money. Just take what they say with a grain of salt and do your own research, which you appear to be doing by coming here and asking questions.

I agree your biggest thing with water changes right now is for nutrient exporting, as you don't have corals yet. Weekly 10-20% water changes are good. Also, testing for ammonia, with that many new fish added at once; I would be concerned about it. But depending on how you cycled, it may not be that big of a deal (Live Rock vs. Bottle Bacteria).

 

[doubleshot00]

The majority of this forum is information about what to do after cycling a tank.

Also, while LFS can be good, they are there to make money. Just take what they say with a grain of salt and do your own research, which you appear to be doing by coming here and asking questions.

I agree your biggest thing with water changes right now is for nutrient exporting, as you don't have corals yet. Weekly 10-20% water changes are good. Also, testing for ammonia, with that many new fish added at once; I would be concerned about it. But depending on how you cycled, it may not be that big of a deal (Live Rock vs. Bottle Bacteria).

He used TurboStart. All the levels were good.

As for the LFS we have four in this area. I felt he was the only one trying to work with me as a rookie and willing to come to my house and fil this tank. He also suggested this forum to me to.

The others seem very unhelpful and wanted to sell fish to experienced reefers.

 

[3429810]

I would be checking ammonia daily right now after adding 5 fish to a freshly cycled tank that size. I don’t think that was a great call by the lfs. You should be testing nitrate and phosphate bare minimum to so you can keep those to what ever range you decide. This forum is full of information just use the search function and you will find all the answers you need.

On a side note don’t blindly trust your lfs. You should be doing your own research to the point you are confident enough to only need a few pointers maybe and can tell when they are misleading you. You should know at least all the basics of the species you are adding to your tank as well because trust me everyone at your lfs has their own opinions on fish species and it’s mostly anecdotal and not always correct.

 

[Timfish]

Welcome to reef keeping and to Reef2Reef!

There's stuff that builds up in the water (hydrophillic Dissolved Organic Carbon) that is best removed (and may only be removed) by water changes. Unfortubnately this si something we can't test for but research shows it can be very detrimental to corals. How fast it builds up in a system depends a great deal on the balance between corals, cryptic sponges, algae, fish and most importantly all the microbial stuff. In my maintenance business I've had very good long term success (as in decades) using small 5% - 10% weekly water chagnes. Initially that's what I'd suggest. Long term once you've learned alot more about your animals and get a feel for how your system is running you may decide some other water change regimen is sufficient. Just keep in mind corals can look ok but can actually be very sick. And I'd point out here many of your animals should live decades if properly cared for.

As far as testing unfortunately we can't test for all the forms of the three major nuttreints, Carbon, Nitrogen and Phosphorus. Our tests are limited to basicely the inorganic forms of these and there's a lot going on with the orgainic and particualte we are unable to test for. Sadly, one consequence is you will find very differing and conflicting opinions on what you should do. But I would echo the above recomendation to test frequently at first as it will help you get a feel for what's happening in your system as it sycles then goes through the maturing process (~8 - 12 months) and beyond.

These may be a data bomb and I'd suggest rewatching them a few times over several weeks but here's some really good videos expalining what all is happening in reef systems:

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC in reef ecosystems. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems

Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes

Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont

BActeria and Sponges

Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)

Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching

Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"

 

[3429810]

He used TurboStart. All the levels were good.

As for the LFS we have four in this area. I felt he was the only one trying to work with me as a rookie and willing to come to my house and fil this tank. He also suggested this forum to me to.

The others seem very unhelpful and wanted to sell fish to experienced reefers.

Are you sure they were unhelpful or just not selling you certain fish or a bunch at the start? The fact they want to sell fish to experienced reefers only doesn’t sound right to me because businesses like to make money. I do hear about stores not wanting to sell a bunch of fish into a bad situation. It doesn’t really matter what he used to cycle it either with adding 5 fish to a brand new tank it’s about how much bio load you guys made it able to take through your cycling method. Take some time to do some research and even go back to some of those other stores and see what they think about your current plan, it won’t hurt.

 

[doubleshot00]

Welcome to reef keeping and to Reef2Reef!

There's stuff that builds up in the water (hydrophillic Dissolved Organic Carbon) that is best removed (and may only be removed) by water changes. Unfortubnately this si something we can't test for but research shows it can be very detrimental to corals. How fast it builds up in a system depends a great deal on the balance between corals, cryptic sponges, algae, fish and most importantly all the microbial stuff. In my maintenance business I've had very good long term success (as in decades) using small 5% - 10% weekly water chagnes. Initially that's what I'd suggest. Long term once you've learned alot more about your animals and get a feel for how your system is running you may decide some other water change regimen is sufficient. Just keep in mind corals can look ok but can actually be very sick. And I'd point out here many of your animals should live decades if properly cared for.

As far as testing unfortunately we can't test for all the forms of the three major nuttreints, Carbon, Nitrogen and Phosphorus. Our tests are limited to basicely the inorganic forms of these and there's a lot going on with the orgainic and particualte we are unable to test for. Sadly, one consequence is you will find very differing and conflicting opinions on what you should do. But I would echo the above recomendation to test frequently at first as it will help you get a feel for what's happening in your system as it sycles then goes through the maturing process (~8 - 12 months) and beyond.

These may be a data bomb and I'd suggest rewatching them a few times over several weeks but here's some really good videos expalining what all is happening in reef systems:

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC in reef ecosystems. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems

WOW post overload.

Thanks this is very helpful.

Ill go home here shortly and check the ammonia. If its hi assume i should change some of the water out. I have about 20 gallons of salt water i bought from him.

 

[LiveFreeAndReef]

WOW post overload.

Thanks this is very helpful.

Ill go home here shortly and check the ammonia. If its hi assume i should change some of the water out. I have about 20 gallons of salt water i bought from him.

Just keep the feedings to a minimum for now. Yes fish produce waste, but they need food to do so. As long as you're feeding lightly you shouldn't have to worry about ammonia spikes.

 

[doubleshot00]

Are you sure they were unhelpful or just not selling you certain fish or a bunch at the start? The fact they want to sell fish to experienced reefers only doesn’t sound right to me because businesses like to make money. I do hear about stores not wanting to sell a bunch of fish into a bad situation. It doesn’t really matter what he used to cycle it either with adding 5 fish to a brand new tank it’s about how much bio load you guys made it able to take through your cycling method. Take some time to do some research and even go back to some of those other stores and see what they think about your current plan, it won’t hurt.

They just seemed very off putting.

How many fish should have been added. Hell some of the Beginner BRS video's I've seen suggested 3-5 fish in a 40 gal so i thought my 90 shouldn't be a big deal.

 

[doubleshot00]

Just keep the feedings to a minimum for now. Yes fish produce waste, but they need food to do so. As long as you're feeding lightly you shouldn't have to worry about ammonia spikes.

I feed very little yesterday and a small strip of algae was added but that tang destroyed that. I have frozen food that i mix up in a cup then use a turkey baster to add a little at a time.

 

[New&no clue]

IMO a newly cycled tank should have 1-2 fish, and then wait a couple of weeks and add another 1-2. When I started, I added a fish a month. I have seen other people go quicker than that, but the biggest thing is to keep up with testing.

Are you making your water or buying from the LFS. If you buy water from the LFS, I would have 50% on hand for the first couple of months. After that 10-20% for water changes is good.

 

[doubleshot00]

IMO a newly cycled tank should have 1-2 fish, and then wait a couple of weeks and add another 1-2. When I started, I added a fish a month. I have seen other people go quicker than that, but the biggest thing is to keep up with testing.

Are you making your water or buying from the LFS. If you buy water from the LFS, I would have 50% on hand for the first couple of months. After that 10-20% for water changes is good.

I have about 20 gallons right now i bought from LFS.