Water changes not lowering nitrates.. what do I do?

[Dad2Wyatt]

My cycle ended about a week ago and since then I’ve performed 3 10% water changes. Basically every other day and tested parameters the next day.

end of cycle: ammonia: 0, nitrite: 0, nitrate 40+ ppm

1st water change: ammonia: 0, nitrite: 0, nitrate: 20 ppm

2nd water change: ammonia: 0, nitrite: 0, nitrate: 20 ppm

3rd water change done around 2 today and tested just now: ammonia: 0 nitrite: .25 nitrate: 20 ppm

Some have said to do a bigger water change which I currently do not have the capacity to do without an inline pump so I’m at a loss. The nitrite spike to .25ppm is worrying me that I might be doing too many water changes and stirring stuff up maybe?

Or should I continue to do water changes daily or every other day until my nitrates are controlled?

currently have one clownfish and one ricordea mushroom

 

[brandon429]

In the last 400 cycles I closed out and then stayed in chat contact or occasional post updates with the poster, we didn’t measure nor react to nitrate or nitrite or ammonia for three or five months after the cycle ended here’s why


tends to take focus off fish disease preps which are required, before adding fish, at the close of the cycle the tank can carry fish and nitrite and ammonia will never unseat thereafter. A cycle stays cycled where you don’t have to test to ensure it remains cycled. Time to begin trustfall mode.


you aren’t dealing most likely with high dollar nitrate testing. Your kit likely reads 50 ppm differently than a $150 nitrate checker would read
The chance you are actually seeing an accurate measure is 6% likely.

successful tanks like Paul Bs have hit and sustained 160 ppm for months on end, and yet zerovit tanks in Germany run well at 1 ppm for years, it’s a wide ranging param. You are referencing it as if the measure of nitrate has a consequence if it’s high or low, it doesn’t. Directly trying to lower it anyway can cause dinos


you should cease testing for three months and disease prep your tank. You can still be enjoying starter corals, a lot of them if you want, you’d replace testing tendency with three months of only testing temp and salinity to unlearn the habit, focusing on temp and salinity control and direct feeding of your corals to boost new growth and make up for brand new rocks with no counter supports


weekly water changes as increased work is where your effort goes, so the feeding you’re doing won’t cause algae.
in February, go to town on the kits if you want but trust me this way above produces droves and droves of happy tanks.

 

[brandon429]

The two top focuses for your recently cycled tank

1. where am I going to get my disease prep steps from, who’s trustworthy for that info on this site (hint, Jay H from the fish disease forum)

2. What am i going to do when the uglies come. Follow suit with the masses, and let the tank wreck over for nine months straight and give excuses to all viewers it should look this way, or, be creative and dont permit any takeovers and pack the system in dense well fed corals so that viewers constantly tell me my tank looks like the Netflix movie on reefs, and can it have a goldfish.

 

[Coxey81]

My cycle ended about a week ago and since then I’ve performed 3 10% water changes. Basically every other day and tested parameters the next day.

end of cycle: ammonia: 0, nitrite: 0, nitrate 40+ ppm

1st water change: ammonia: 0, nitrite: 0, nitrate: 20 ppm

2nd water change: ammonia: 0, nitrite: 0, nitrate: 20 ppm

3rd water change done around 2 today and tested just now: ammonia: 0 nitrite: .25 nitrate: 20 ppm

Some have said to do a bigger water change which I currently do not have the capacity to do without an inline pump so I’m at a loss. The nitrite spike to .25ppm is worrying me that I might be doing too many water changes and stirring stuff up maybe?

Or should I continue to do water changes daily or every other day until my nitrates are controlled?

currently have one clownfish and one ricordea mushroom

As long as your mushroom is doing ok I wouldn't sweat it too much and just keep doing daily water changes and it should come down as long as you aren't feeding too much.

One clown is not going to eat much, especially if it's small. So make sure you aren't overfeeding. Otherwise the nitrates will never come down.

ETA: your .25 nitrite is nothing to worry about at all.

 

[DrZoidburg]

cycle ended

How long?

3rd water change done around 2 today and tested just now: ammonia: 0 nitrite: .25 nitrate: 20 ppm

This here nitrite can make nitrate read higher. I would check salt mix, or source water for ammonia readings. May be you are cycled but something keeps adding trace ammonia.

 

[Dad2Wyatt]

In the last 400 cycles I closed out and then stayed in chat contact or occasional post updates with the poster, we didn’t measure nor react to nitrate or nitrite or ammonia for three or five months after the cycle ended here’s why


tends to take focus off fish disease preps which are required, before adding fish, at the close of the cycle the tank can carry fish and nitrite and ammonia will never unseat thereafter. A cycle stays cycled where you don’t have to test to ensure it remains cycled. Time to begin trustfall mode.


you aren’t dealing most likely with high dollar nitrate testing. Your kit likely reads 50 ppm differently than a $150 nitrate checker would read
The chance you are actually seeing an accurate measure is 6% likely.

successful tanks like Paul Bs have hit and sustained 160 ppm for months on end, and yet zerovit tanks in Germany run well at 1 ppm for years, it’s a wide ranging param. You are referencing it as if the measure of nitrate has a consequence if it’s high or low, it doesn’t. Directly trying to lower it anyway can cause dinos


you should cease testing for three months and disease prep your tank. You can still be enjoying starter corals, a lot of them if you want, you’d replace testing tendency with three months of only testing temp and salinity to unlearn the habit, focusing on temp and salinity control and direct feeding of your corals to boost new growth and make up for brand new rocks with no counter supports


weekly water changes as increased work is where your effort goes, so the feeding you’re doing won’t cause algae.
in February, go to town on the kits if you want but trust me this way above produces droves and droves of happy tanks.

In the last 400 cycles I closed out and then stayed in chat contact or occasional post updates with the poster, we didn’t measure nor react to nitrate or nitrite or ammonia for three or five months after the cycle ended here’s why


tends to take focus off fish disease preps which are required, before adding fish, at the close of the cycle the tank can carry fish and nitrite and ammonia will never unseat thereafter. A cycle stays cycled where you don’t have to test to ensure it remains cycled. Time to begin trustfall mode.


you aren’t dealing most likely with high dollar nitrate testing. Your kit likely reads 50 ppm differently than a $150 nitrate checker would read
The chance you are actually seeing an accurate measure is 6% likely.

successful tanks like Paul Bs have hit and sustained 160 ppm for months on end, and yet zerovit tanks in Germany run well at 1 ppm for years, it’s a wide ranging param. You are referencing it as if the measure of nitrate has a consequence if it’s high or low, it doesn’t. Directly trying to lower it anyway can cause dinos


you should cease testing for three months and disease prep your tank. You can still be enjoying starter corals, a lot of them if you want, you’d replace testing tendency with three months of only testing temp and salinity to unlearn the habit, focusing on temp and salinity control and direct feeding of your corals to boost new growth and make up for brand new rocks with no counter supports


weekly water changes as increased work is where your effort goes, so the feeding you’re doing won’t cause algae.
in February, go to town on the kits if you want but trust me this way above produces droves and droves of happy tanks.

So the main reason I was testing was because I was told to ensure that I kept my nitrates low due to my mushroom and corals. The clown can handle some obviously but was told the mushroom would be less forgiving. I’m starting to learn that everything isn’t quite as straight forward as I might have thought.

As far as disease prepping my tank, do tou mean QT and copper treatments etc? I only learned about QT after buying my clown when my LFS told me they had recently come off QT. However I do not currently have a QT tank set up. Is there a way to fish prep around this while still adding corals?

I know that’s a lot to answer but this is almost the exact opposite of what I have been told up to this point! That being adding fish first and corals later

 

[Dad2Wyatt]

As long as your mushroom is doing ok I wouldn't sweat it too much and just keep doing daily water changes and it should come down as long as you aren't feeding too much.

One clown is not going to eat much, especially if it's small. So make sure you aren't overfeeding. Otherwise the nitrates will never come down.

ETA: your .25 nitrite is nothing to worry about at all.

Yes he gets fed maybe half a pinch before he is over it! Maybe 4-5 pellets hit the sand max.

currently my mushroom is closed up but I’ve been told that it can take over a week sometimes before they lay flat again! Just starting to come up on that point and was worried it might be my nitrates!
Also good to know on nitrites!

 

[Dad2Wyatt]

How long?

This here nitrite can make nitrate read higher. I would check salt mix, or source water for ammonia readings. May be you are cycled but something keeps adding trace ammonia.

My tank cycle took almost 2 months. A couple days shy. I overdosed ammonia and stalled the cycle out the first week so it might have taken a little longer than normal.
I use instant ocean and will be switching to their reef crystals once this bucket is empty!

 

[brandon429]

This is my advice

fill the tank up with a decent amount of corals you know you can keep and easily drive mass onto by feeding rods food, reef a+b and water changes. Get a cleaner shrimp, some cool stuff to watch. You can dang near produce a very nice looking reef by getting many corals going, they want feed and clean water like cpr compressions weekly or bi weekly, they don’t need the param detailing agreed.


build up a fine reef thats nearly fully ready still with no fish. When stocked, begin fallow for 80 days. You can enjoy coral and feed them and do water changes and hand clean out any algae to avoid takeover, all during fallow. while you wait for fallow you’re enjoying a nearly done reef. At the end of fallow buy only pre quarantined fish and add them.

that above is the ideal. From the fish disease forum


for sure there are nine other ways of treating fish in tank but those don’t come from the fish forum and I’ve been arguing how bad they are with peers for the last eight days, for me to turn back now would be hypocritical lol

 

[Coxey81]

Yes he gets fed maybe half a pinch before he is over it! Maybe 4-5 pellets hit the sand max.

currently my mushroom is closed up but I’ve been told that it can take over a week sometimes before they lay flat again! Just starting to come up on that point and was worried it might be my nitrates!
Also good to know on nitrites!

If you were at 40ppm an one 10% water change took you down to 20 that just doesn't add up.

If you are at 40 and do a 10% change it's only going to bring you down 10%, so to 36ppm. And that's considering you aren't feeding anything.

I don't know what test kit you have, but mine is a red sea and it's extremely hard to read anything between 20 and 50 cause the color pad just jumps from 20 to 50.

If your cycle took 2 months and you OD the amonia, I have no doubt your nitrates where in the 40ppm range.

But 3 10% water changes would only bring you down to around 28 ppm.

Like others suggested I would do a 50% WC if possible. If you can't, then just do daily 10% ones. It should come down.

Just remember you are only removing 10% at a time.

If your feeding twice a day it won't hurt to cut to once a day for a few days either.

 

[Dad2Wyatt]

If you were at 40ppm an one 10% water change took you down to 20 that just doesn't add up.

If you are at 40 and do a 10% change it's only going to bring you down 10%, so to 36ppm. And that's considering you aren't feeding anything.

I don't know what test kit you have, but mine is a red sea and it's extremely hard to read anything between 20 and 50 cause the color pad just jumps from 20 to 50.

If your cycle took 2 months and you OD the amonia, I have no doubt your nitrates where in the 40ppm range.

But 3 10% water changes would only bring you down to around 28 ppm.

Like others suggested I would do a 50% WC if possible. If you can't, then just do daily 10% ones. It should come down.

Just remember you are only removing 10% at a time.

If your feeding twice a day it won't hurt to cut to once a day for a few days either.

I’ll try this thank you! That actually makes a lot of sense!

 

[Dad2Wyatt]

This is my advice

fill the tank up with a decent amount of corals you know you can keep and easily drive mass onto by feeding rods food, reef a+b and water changes. Get a cleaner shrimp, some cool stuff to watch. You can dang near produce a very nice looking reef by getting many corals going, they want feed and clean water like cpr compressions weekly or bi weekly, they don’t need the param detailing agreed.


build up a fine reef thats nearly fully ready still with no fish. When stocked, begin fallow for 80 days. You can enjoy coral and feed them and do water changes and hand clean out any algae to avoid takeover, all during fallow. while you wait for fallow you’re enjoying a nearly done reef. At the end of fallow buy only pre quarantined fish and add them.

that above is the ideal. From the fish disease forum


for sure there are nine other ways of treating fish in tank but those don’t come from the fish forum and I’ve been arguing how bad they are with peers for the last eight days, for me to turn back now would be hypocritical lol

That’s fair and i honestly think this is a very practical approach for me. I knows not to add a large bioload at once but the QT stopped me in my tracks. I think this is the advice I will take!

that being said, I do have a black ocellaris that I have already paid for a couple weeks out from being out of QT. What do you recommend I do with the 2 clowns I currently have? Obviously going fallow doesn’t work if I have fish in the tank regardless of them being quarantined or not

 

[brandon429]

Truly I’m not sure let’s sample the team for best recommends given the current setup

the fact we are angling for any best practices at all with new fish coming I think is very up to date with today’s better efforts. The going trend is to add many mixed species with no preps and then feel incredibly hurt and offended and scoffed that Id ever mention such a thing as disease prep, your friendliness and receptivity to the offer has caught me off guard. heh


honestly clownfish aren’t the top risk vectors anyway among options you could have in place already, such as any tang


90% of nano reef.com for twenty years is two unprepped clowns doing happily in a nano as long as they want to run it, in mere pattern alone its the destined to be mixed fish system that need the focus. Team will have some great ideas.

 

[Dad2Wyatt]

Truly I’m not sure let’s sample the team for best recommends given the current setup

the fact we are angling for any best practices at all with new fish coming I think is very up to date with today’s better efforts. The going trend is to add many mixed species with no preps and then feel incredibly hurt and offended and scoffed that Id ever mention such a thing as disease prep, your friendliness and receptivity to the offer has caught me off guard. heh


honestly clownfish aren’t the top risk vectors anyway among options you could have in place already, such as any tang


90% of nano reef.com for twenty years is two unprepped clowns doing happily in a nano as long as they want to run it, in mere pattern alone its the destined to be mixed fish system that need the focus. Team will have some great ideas.

This has been an eye opening journey for me! I started with minimal(and that might be over stating) experience but Google at my hands. From broad articles and forum searches, to Facebook groups, and now finally to here, which has been the best resource so far!

best practices are generally that for a reason! Though there are always exceptions and certain practices that may not matter too much, I generally like to follow them as they often equal the most consistent success. I think at least some form of QT is good now that I have learned, however, unfortunately, I am past that point so now I want to do the best I can to try to catch up.

As far as friendliness that is a common courtesy I would assume! You spending your time helping a beginner like me with questions that lead to answers with new questions is incredibly kind so I am thankful!

can’t wait to see responses to correct this situation as best as possible!

 

[Tbg299]

My cycle ended about a week ago and since then I’ve performed 3 10% water changes. Basically every other day and tested parameters the next day.

end of cycle: ammonia: 0, nitrite: 0, nitrate 40+ ppm

1st water change: ammonia: 0, nitrite: 0, nitrate: 20 ppm

2nd water change: ammonia: 0, nitrite: 0, nitrate: 20 ppm

3rd water change done around 2 today and tested just now: ammonia: 0 nitrite: .25 nitrate: 20 ppm

Some have said to do a bigger water change which I currently do not have the capacity to do without an inline pump so I’m at a loss. The nitrite spike to .25ppm is worrying me that I might be doing too many water changes and stirring stuff up maybe?

Or should I continue to do water changes daily or every other day until my nitrates are controlled?

currently have one clownfish and one ricordea mushroom

20 ppm nitrates is really high, especially for a new tank. Are you sure you're not overfeeding or anything?

 

[Dad2Wyatt]

20 ppm nitrates is really high, especially for a new tank. Are you sure you're not overfeeding or anything?

I did overdose ammonia at the beginning of my cycle and stalled it out for a while so nitrates got pretty high up there. I’ve done another 10% and 20% chance since then and finally saw my nitrates starting to drop! Think I just needed to do a little bit bigger water change! Gonna do another 20% here In a couple days and see how it goes

 

[Tim McLellan]

Don't sweat it. My nitrates were like that for the first 4-5 months, then started dropping. Now they are so low I am looking at dosing nitrate to get them up a little bit for my corals.

 

[Dad2Wyatt]

Don't sweat it. My nitrates were like that for the first 4-5 months, then started dropping. Now they are so low I am looking at dosing nitrate to get them up a little bit for my corals.

Right! I’ve been so focused on getting them to zero as was the advice I was given, but as has been mentioned on this thread as well in other research, as long as my fish and corals are happy I shouldn’t fret it TOO much

 

[Coxey81]

Right! I’ve been so focused on getting them to zero as was the advice I was given, but as has been mentioned on this thread as well in other research, as long as my fish and corals are happy I shouldn’t fret it TOO much

You don't want them at zero either, fwiw.

If you are doing lps and softies I would shoot for NO3 around 5-15 ppm and PO4 around .05 to .15ppm.