Water softener/rodi?

[billgillette]

Ok so I've been dealing with hard water in my house and it's creating low pressure from build up. I have a water softener that runs to the whole house but since I've been here I've never used it because I've always heard you can't use the water after it goes through it.. I have a ro/di unit installed into one of my lines.. is it ok to use the softener? Or do I need to run another line that bypasses the softener just for my rodi???

 

[AZDesertRat]

Absolutely use softened water, this is the best thing you can possibly do for a RO membrane. The softener acts as pretreatment for the RO and does much of the hard work for it by removing calcium and magnesium and replacing them with sodium or potassium which is much easier for the membrane to deal with.

 

[billgillette]

I'm not as concerned of the filters and such on the rodi unit but more about the water I'd use after the unit for my tanks... I'm told it can hurt the fish ect. Over time using water that came from a softener??

 

[danknuc]

I agree with AZDesertRat. We use RO/DI where I work and every system we put in gets a new water softener with it. We process about 40,000 gallon per day of RO/DI for our process. Additionally, adding an additional carbon filter before your RO/DI unit helps to extend the life of you RO membrane. Most units come with a sediment filter and carbon filter as part of the unit but adding a whole home filter with a carbon cartridge ($22 from the Home Depot) after the softener and before the RO/DI unit will help.

 

[danknuc]

I'm not as concerned of the filters and such on the rodi unit but more about the water I'd use after the unit for my tanks... I'm told it can hurt the fish ect. Over time using water that came from a softener??

Anything the water softener puts in will be taken out by the RO membrane.

 

[billgillette]

I agree with AZDesertRat. We use RO/DI where I work and every system we put in gets a new water softener with it. We process about 40,000 gallon per day of RO/DI for our process. Additionally, adding an additional carbon filter before your RO/DI unit helps to extend the life of you RO membrane. Most units come with a sediment filter and carbon filter as part of the unit but adding a whole home filter with a carbon cartridge ($22 from the Home Depot) after the softener and before the RO/DI unit will help.

So I would want to install another carbon filter right after the softener that would go to the whole house. My softener when running goes to every fixture in the house and I tied off the shower line to go to my rodi.

 

[AZDesertRat]

I wouldn't. Everything you add in front of the membrane has an associated headloss reducing the membrane efficiency. Large commercial systems have big booster pumps to overcome that.
You are far better off with one single 1.0 or 0.5 micron near absolute sediment filter and a single 0.5 micron carbon, better filters not more filters.

 

[billgillette]

this is the unit I have. It's the brs water saver. Has dual membranes then the sediment filter, carbon filter then Di...sorry I'm new to having a rodi unit. So this should be fine right? Just get my softener running and be good to go??

 

[danknuc]

I put one in right before the RO/DI in my house to supply only the RO/DI, the whole house uses 3/4" fittings and has little to no pressure drop since it is designed for large flow (whole house).

 

[billgillette]

I put one in right before the RO/DI in my house to supply only the RO/DI, the whole house uses 3/4" fittings and has little to no pressure drop since it is designed for large flow (whole house).

You put in the softener or the carbon filter right before the rodi?

 

[AZDesertRat]

There is no reason to add an additional carbon for the RO/DI, it serves no purpose. Reef quality RO/DI systems have an extruded carbon block that is capable of treating 12,000 to 20,000 gallons as long as it is protected by an equal sized or smaller micron rated sediment filter.

One thing I hope your realize is dual membrane systems require a minimum of 65 psi to operate. Many people don't have that at the tap so would require a RO booster pump.

 

[billgillette]

There is no reason to add an additional carbon for the RO/DI, it serves no purpose. Reef quality RO/DI systems have an extruded carbon block that is capable of treating 12,000 to 20,000 gallons as long as it is protected by an equal sized or smaller micron rated sediment filter.

One thing I hope your realize is dual membrane systems require a minimum of 65 psi to operate. Many people don't have that at the tap so would require a RO booster pump.

Yeah I seen that about the booster. I'm sure I need one since it only runs between 35-45psi depending if something else is running in the house.

 

[AZDesertRat]

Not good, even a single membrane needs a minimum of 40 psi. The higher the pressure the more efficient the membrane becomes. I run my Aquatec 8800 booster at 95-100 psi and get 99.4% rejection rate out of a single 75 GPD
membrane producing 135+ GPD that is 9 years old.
Also don't fall for the water saver dual membrane BS, it doesn't work like that. Ask any legitimate RO vendor that has been around longer than a decade. If it were that easy every vendor would have been doing that 30 years ago. Take that claim with a grain of salt.

 

[billgillette]

Not good, even a single membrane needs a minimum of 40 psi. The higher the pressure the more efficient the membrane becomes. I run my Aquatec 8800 booster at 95-100 psi and get 99.4% rejection rate out of a membrane that is 9 years old.

I think I saw that booster on BRS. Are they easy to install?

 

[danknuc]

I put in the carbon before RO/DI to help reduce the chloramines in the water. Chloramines will degrade a RO membrane and are harder to remove than free chlorine from city water. By using the whole house filter there is negligible pressure drop and I now have zero chlorine and chloramines. You can also accomplish this with additional stages to your RO/DI system but with the 1/4" fittings and the higher cost, a simple whole house filter, for me, works just fine without reducing the pressure.

 

[AZDesertRat]

Carbon does not remove chloramines.
Carbon removes the chlorine portion of chloramines and breaks the bond with the ammonia portion which is the removed mostly by the RO membrane then polished off by the DI.
Again carbon does not remove chloramines. Another myth perpetuated by uninformed vendors.
Chloramines, just like free chlorine has an EPA MCL or maximum level of 4 mg/L and most utilities keep it well below that as it costs them money to add. A good 1 micron 10" carbon block is more than capable of removing chlorine or the chlorine portion of chloramines from 12,000 gallons of water when presented at 1 mg/L, if its 2mg/L then 6,000 gallons. A 0.5 or 0.6 micron carbon block 20,000 gallons. Coarser micron ranges and most granular carbons are not as effective and have a much shorter life.

 

[billgillette]

Carbon does not remove chloramines.
Carbon removes the chlorine portion of chloramines and breaks the bond with the ammonia portion which is the removed mostly by the RO membrane then polished off by the DI.
Again carbon does not remove chloramines. Another myth perpetuated by uninformed vendors.
Chloramines, just like free chlorine has an EPA MCL or maximum level of 4 mg/L and most utilities keep it well below that as it costs them money to add. A good 1 micron 10" carbon block is more than capable of removing chlorine or the chlorine portion of chloramines from 12,000 gallons of water when presented at 1 mg/L, if its 2mg/L then 6,000 gallons. A 0.5 or 0.6 micron carbon block 20,000 gallons. Coarser micron ranges and most granular carbons are not as effective and have a much shorter life.

So start running the softener (which will make the wife happy lol) and get a booster pump to increase the PSI and I should be fine then... ?

 

[AZDesertRat]

Yes. Took me awhile to get used to soft water but it sure saves on soap, water heaters and plumbing fixtures. Growing up on the Colorado River I thought all water could be cut with a knife!

 

[billgillette]

Yes. Took me awhile to get used to soft water but it sure saves on soap, water heaters and plumbing fixtures. Growing up on the Colorado River I thought all water could be cut with a knife!

LOL! Ok thank you for your help. N yup my shower head is always clogging up and low pressure a lot too. So the softener will definitely help

 

[AZDesertRat]

Yep, no more calcium, no more hard water spots or white powdery film and your soap use, washer, dishwasher, shower and bath will all go down. And your RO membrane will thank you by doubling or tripling it's life.