Water Softener

[Crabs McJones]

So we recently moved as most of you are aware. In our previous house we had no filtration system whatsoever. Just straight from the city to the faucet. In this new house we have a water softener system. Should I be tapping into my source water before or after the softener system? What are the effects of feeding softened water to an RO unit?
The reason I ask is it seems i'm burning through DI rather quickly, and the only thing I can think it might be is something to do with the softened water.

Thanks,

Crabs

 

[Auquanut]

Great question. We've got hookups for a water softener, but don't currently have one. Thought about getting one as our city water is VERY hard.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

We have a water softener with a whole house filter which takes out chlorine and other things. I have my R/O system hooked up post softener/whole house filter. I figure between the two, the water is cleaner afterwards? My understanding of the softener is that the only potential byproduct is a little salt in the water. But I am no expert! So following to see if someone with actual expertise will chime in.

 

[lpsouth1978]

It really depends on the quality of your source water and what is in it. Softeners are not really filtering the water, instead they are trading one ion for another. Typically this means replacing it with salt. The salt is actually quite easy for RO systems to remove so it should not cause DI resin to be exhausted faster. CO2 or Chloromines much more likely

 

[redfishbluefish]

You want to hook up the RO/DI after the water softener.

And you didn't mention....is the new house on city water or well water. If well water, and you're burning through DI....most likely CO2 in the water. A bubbler unit will handle getting rid of the CO2.

 

[MrsBugmaster]

I use to go through a lot of DI resin. I am on well water which first goes through whole house sediment filter then water softener then rodi. I have high CO2 in my water and that is what was eating up my DI. I had to break up my RODI unit and run just RO in a container, then degass that water with an air stone, then us a booster pump and run it through the DI. It is a pain but now I get many months out of my DI instead of 6 weeks. Bulk Reef Supply also sells a separate CO2 buster DI canister, if tht is the problem. It has Anion only in it before the mixed bed DI. That may help. But you will still be buying more anion resin although , it is cheaper than mixed resin.

 

[Auquanut]

I use to go through a lot of DI resin. I am on well water which first goes through whole house sediment filter then water softener then rodi. I have high CO2 in my water and that is what was eating up my DI. I had to break up my RODI unit and run just RO in a container, then degass that water with an air stone, then us a booster pump and run it through the DI. It is a pain but now I get many months out of my DI instead of 6 weeks. Bulk Reef Supply also sells a separate CO2 buster DI canister. It has Anion only in it before the mixed bed DI. That may help. But you will still be buying more anion resin although , it is cheaper than mixed resin.

I know this is a stupid question, but is the high CO2 from the source water or caused by the sediment filter or water softener?

 

[EMeyer]

Dont water softeners just replace one set of dissolved substances with another? In other words, its no purer after the softener than before?

I ask only out of curiosity. I have wonderful well water and no softener. Water softeners make water feel slimy, like you can never properly rinse the soap off your skin. Can't imagine why people use them but maybe some water is bad enough the slimy-feeling water is better?

 

[Crabs McJones]

Dont water softeners just replace one set of dissolved substances with another? In other words, its no purer after the softener than before?

I ask only out of curiosity. I have wonderful well water and no softener. Water softeners make water feel slimy, like you can never properly rinse the soap off your skin. Can't imagine why people use them but maybe some water is bad enough the slimy-feeling water is better?

I'm still trying to get used to this after taking a shower. You rinse off only to feel like you didn't get any off at all! lol It's weird to go from never having one for 30 years to all the sudden having one.

Same with a doorbell....
Lived in our old house for 9 years and never had a doorbell. Now in the new house we moved in and one of the neighbors rang the doorbell to say hello, i heard the noise, looked around and went "What the heck was that??!!"

 

[mav3rick478]

I ask only out of curiosity. I have wonderful well water and no softener. Water softeners make water feel slimy, like you can never properly rinse the soap off your skin. Can't imagine why people use them but maybe some water is bad enough the slimy-feeling water is better?

If your water is really hard it starts to leave deposits on all your faucets and fixtures. It is also harsh on the skin for some people.

 

[KenO]

I found this writeup regarding hard/soft water. Take it for what it's worth. Not everyone likes the feel of softened water. For me our water is very hard. TDS levels are around 650 in the summer and 350 in the winter. I was in a rental that didn't have a water softener. When we built our house I made sure one was installed prior to moving in. Hard water is tough on skin, clothes, appliances, etc. In addition, we use potassium vs sodium in our softener. More expensive, but also better for you.

Internet info I copied.

Here are the FACTS:
1. Calcium and magnesium are “hard” minerals which combine with soap and form “curd” and suds.
2. This calcium and magnesium and soap curd does lodge in the pores of your skin in hard water.
3. Since there is no calcium or magnesium in soft water, the sodium which is a “soft” mineral, combines with the soap to form suds, without curd.
4. There is no calcium and magnesium in the water and no curd, and sodium does not stick in your skins’ pores.
5. Use a pure soap like Ivory – wash one hand with soft water and rinse – it will fell slick – then wash the other with hard water – it will feel “squeaky clean.” Then taste both hands. You will taste soap only on the hard water side. Therefore the soap is gone.
6. Many people with sensitive skin break out when they bathe in hard water. I have seen people with eczema-like skin problems have clear skin after a few days with soft water.
7. There is no soap residue left when you shower in soft water.
8. There is soap residue left on the skin when you shower in hard water.
9. I cannot say why acne would occur in soft water unless the skin is stimulated by the lack of calcium and magnesium in the pores to produce oil.
10. Some people love the slick feeling – others hate the slimy feeling – it’s all about perception!
11. With soft water, you get the following benefits over hard water:
a. 50% less soap, detergents and cleaning chemicals (for example, you use half the laundry soap, half the shampoo and half the dishwasher detergent).
b. 30% saving on water heating energy.
c. Dramatically increases the life of all water using appliances and plumbing appliances.
d. Delivers spot-free dishes in the dishwasher.
e. Cuts cleaning time in showers and sinks.

 

[KenO]

A water softener contains a resin that attracts hard mineral ions. After awhile, for example our softener can go 1200 gallons before it needs to be cycled, the resin will no longer be able to hold more hard mineral ions. So this is where the sodium or potassium comes into play. The softener will flush itself with the salt soution, this dislodge the hard mineral ions from the resin and replace them with the salt ions. The hard mineral ions are then flushed into the waste drain of the house. Then when you take a shower hard water enters the softener and the salt ions are dislodged from the resin being replaced with the hard ions and the water with salt travels through the plumbing to sinks, toilets, showers, dishwasher, etc. Please note the TDS of the water is not changed by using a softener. So for example where my TDS is 650 summer and 350 winter, those numbers stay the same.

Now the "softened" water is easier on skin, clothes, appliances, etc and in my case my RO/DI system. An RO membrane has an easier time filtering softened water vs hard water. Hard water will clog the pores of an RO membrane shortening its life.

 

[MTBake]

I added a water softener last year. No change in di consumption. Use less soap and the slimey feeling isn't as bad.

 

[KenO]

I reduced my DI consumption by going with the individual resins; Cation, Anion and a mixed bed DI. After going with this type of setup and after making thousands of gallons of RO/DI water, I've only had to replace the Anion resin. Prior to that I was only getting around 500 gallons with my dual mixed bed resin.

 

[EMeyer]

10. Some people love the slick feeling – others hate the slimy feeling – it’s all about perception!

I will skip a shower rather than shower in soft water. Its so gross. Like shaking hands with someone that just applied hand lotion.

I figured some people just didn't notice or didn't care, but some actually prefer it? Mind blown

 

[Cment]

You want to hook up the RO/DI after the water softener.

And you didn't mention....is the new house on city water or well water. If well water, and you're burning through DI....most likely CO2 in the water. A bubbler unit will handle getting rid of the CO2.

what type of bubbler unit would you suggest and how would it be set up? Sorry @Crabs McJones not trying to hijack the thread. Im moving into a new house also that uses well water and this is a concern for me too.

 

[Crabs McJones]

what type of bubbler unit would you suggest and how would it be set up? Sorry @Crabs McJones not trying to hijack the thread. Im moving into a new house also that uses well water and this is a concern for me too.

Hey no worries, I'd rather you get the help you need

 

[Crabs McJones]

what type of bubbler unit would you suggest and how would it be set up? Sorry @Crabs McJones not trying to hijack the thread. Im moving into a new house also that uses well water and this is a concern for me too.

And for the record, this is what we call a Bubbler in Wisconsin ;Hilarious;Hilarious

Apparently we are the only state that refers to water fountains as bubblers lol

 

[redfishbluefish]

And for the record, this is what we call a Bubbler in Wisconsin ;Hilarious;Hilarious

Apparently we are the only state that refers to water fountains as bubblers lol

Only in Wisconsin! What else did I hear out there....pop and grinders for soda and a sub sandwiches....and the tailgate at Brewer's stadium had to include Brats cooked in beer....but my favorite, and what I miss is Kopps Ice cream in Milwaukee (Glendale)....not far from my place in Brown Deer.

Anyway.....

what type of bubbler unit would you suggest and how would it be set up? Sorry @Crabs McJones not trying to hijack the thread. Im moving into a new house also that uses well water and this is a concern for me too.

First off, there is a crude test for CO2 in your water. Draw a glass of water from the tap and immediately measure pH. Let that glass sit around for a day. Measure pH again. If the water went from acidic to more neutral, it typically is a sign for high CO2 in your water. You could speed this test up a bit if you have a pump and bubbler. Bubble the water and after about 30 minutes, measure pH.

Two ways to bubble your water:

1. Make RO water only and collect. Bubble this water for a day. Using a small/slow pump, pump it through the DI.

2. And this DIY method was from the Spectrapure site....

Procedure for aeration for CO2 removal

RO product water is collected in a 3 feet tall PVC column with an air stone resting at the bottom. Air from an air pump is pumped into the column with RO product water. Degassed water (almost free of CO2 ) is collected from the top of the column and then gravity fed into the Deionization cartridge.

 

[Hitman]

I have the 7 stage pro plus 200 gallon a day BRS system and I personally noticed my filters last twice as long and first sensor post membrane pre first stage di is lower now that I moved my feed line pre water softener. I was at 8 tds now I’m at 2 tds. Sensor 2 zero sensor 3 zero. I use the blue Morton’s salt crystal bags if that has anything to do with it.