Water to clean?

Reef addict 01

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hey guys I recently started talking to sing and I've been told that if your water gets to "clean" as in 0 nitrate and phosphates. they can actually kill your zoes and other corals. is this true?
 
For the last 4yrs I've been told & have read that softies do like higher nutrient water. Then again I see peoples tanks that are so freaking clean & keeping SPS with hundreds of beautiful zoas. Go figure!
Personally I haven't been able to keep most zoa's alive no matter what. But I've got shrooms to the invasive degree! I also have a Neon green frog spawn that's doing quit well.
Hope you figure it out, cause I sure haven't :(
 
I've heard that too and know of people with zero nitrates that can't keep zoas. I have only softies and lps in my tank and keep the nitrates at about 10 and they're thriving.
 
I've heard that too and know of people with zero nitrates that can't keep zoas. I have only softies and lps in my tank and keep the nitrates at about 10 and they're thriving.

okay yeah that seems to make sense to me, I have a 65 gallon last I checked my nitrates for 40. I'm doing a water change today so I will test it again before and after the change I'll try and get mine to around 10 as well because that seems to be enough to feed them but low enough to not cause damage do you have any algae problems? I started vodka dosing as well and I am up to .7 milliliters. perhaps I will just keep it at .7 and continue my water changes and see what happens. do you have any advice on how to make corals grow faster? I have a me on green hammer, a purple tips hammer, and some soft corals as well as some acans and zoes that arent doing so good
 
Here is the problem. People use the word "nutrients" and "clean" to refer to Nitrate/Phosphate as well as the amount of organic food in the water. You cannot measure the latter. If you look at the params of a wild reef, nitrates and phosphate are absolutely undetectable. The corals do not particularly want to eat Nitrate/Phosphate (I'm sure they consume some, but not nearly as much as a clam or sponge). They get energy from their symbiotic algae as well as they eat a LOT of food. (Post #30: Home blended coral food, (used to be $5) - Page 3) People are thinking about it backwards. You cannot over-skim or make a tank "too clean". You can only underfeed (based on your stock and filtration capability of course). If your tank can't handle a lot of coral food, and your corals are acting like they could use some "nutrients" (referring to FOOD), then up the feedings that your fish get. Corals love fish waste. ;)

The myth about zoas and LPS not being able to live in water without some nitrate/phosphate is because a messier tank may have more food floating around, but if your levels are that high, it is not being cleaned up fast enough by your filtration. And since nitrate/phosphate can be tested and the amount of food present cannot, people say "oh look, they like the nitrate and phosphate". But in truth, they are simply tolerating it and the nitrate/phosphate is just a bi-product of food and fish waste.
 
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Here is the problem. People use the word "nutrients" and "clean" to refer to Nitrate/Phosphate as well as the amount of organic food in the water. You cannot measure the latter. If you look at the params of a wild reef, nitrates and phosphate are absolutely undetectable. The corals do not particularly want to eat Nitrate/Phosphate (I'm sure they consume some, but not nearly as much as a clam or sponge). They get energy from their symbiotic algae as well as they eat a LOT of food. (Post #30: Home blended coral food, (used to be $5) - Page 3) People are thinking about it backwards. You cannot over-skim or make a tank "too clean". You can only underfeed (based on your stock and filtration capability of course). If your tank can't handle a lot of coral food, and your corals are acting like they could use some "nutrients" (referring to FOOD), then up the feedings that your fish get. Corals love fish waste. ;)

The myth about zoas and LPS not being able to live in water without some nitrate/phosphate is because a messier tank may have more food floating around, but if your levels are that high, it is not being cleaned up fast enough by your filtration. And since nitrate/phosphate can be tested and the amount of food present cannot, people say "oh look, they like the nitrate and phosphate". But in truth, they are simply tolerating it and the nitrate/phosphate is just a bi-product of food and fish waste.

Well said. Plus the ocean has an endless supply of zoo and phytoplankton for corals to eat. In my tank nitrates are usually 0 but if i get phos too low only sps look awesome my z&p seem sadder. Corals addapt fairly good, the goal is to keep your parameters as stable as possible.
 
I have seen "dirty" tanks and the cleanest of tanks that have the most colorful sps growing out of the water be able to grow zoanthids like nobody's business!
 
I have seen "dirty" tanks and the cleanest of tanks that have the most colorful sps growing out of the water be able to grow zoanthids like nobody's business!

I can't seem to figure out my problem :-(. I have a nice mushroom colony to but they don't seem to want to open up either I really don't know what's going on? the person I spoke to thought maybe they're getting too much light I have two kessel a150w ocean blues on it and I have been them down to just a few inches of the water's surface so perhaps my corals are getting too much light and that's why they don't want to open up so much I don't know. I don't know I've been reading some interesting stuff that people have sent me on here about feeding and whatnot and it seems like the feeder tanks quite a bit of food my concern with that is a build up of waste. with the setup I have at the moment I cannot have a sump so the only filtration I have is sea cyclone 101 protein skimmer by Instant Ocean and a hang on the back dual carbon filter made by tetra. along with phosban 150 reactor. I know the carbon filter I am using is for freshwater does anybody have any good ideas for hanging on the back filtration that will really help me out for saltwater.
 
You need a steady religious schedule of water changes if you can change the equipment. Try lifting your lights and feeding heavier, but find the balance to where the food isnt wasted and rots in the tank. The steady WC's will help with this.
 
You need a steady religious schedule of water changes if you can change the equipment. Try lifting your lights and feeding heavier, but find the balance to where the food isnt wasted and rots in the tank. The steady WC's will help with this.

Ok thank you
 
I
feel that many tanks are to clean and that to much water is being changed un necessarily. Do new tanks with all new water look healthier than more mature tanks? No, they don't. But I know I am in the vast minority
 
I have always maintained by tanks to have low levels of nitrate and phosphates and it has never caused a problem with my Zoandthids and Palys having any issue doing well in my tanks. I've heard this excuse many times. With that being said, I don't think they mind being in tank with elevated levels of either. They certainly are a lot more tolerable than other corals.
 
I have always maintained by tanks to have low levels of nitrate and phosphates and it has never caused a problem with my Zoandthids and Palys having any issue doing well in my tanks. I've heard this excuse many times. With that being said, I don't think they mind being in tank with elevated levels of either. They certainly are a lot more tolerable than other corals.

It's not really an excuse. Mine do better with some nitrates in the tank. Each tank is unique.
 
It's not really an excuse. Mine do better with some nitrates in the tank. Each tank is unique.

+1 to that. I agree completely I'm just going to try and keep my really low like 10-15 that way it's clean, but theres still a little in the water that the corals can benefit from of need be. If things don't get better then I'll try getting them as close to zero as possible.
 
+1 to that. I agree completely I'm just going to try and keep my really low like 10-15 that way it's clean, but theres still a little in the water that the corals can benefit from of need be. If things don't get better then I'll try getting them as close to zero as possible.

I'm going to try to lower mine a little so they'll not get over 10, but I've heard far more experienced people than me say that a little nitrates can be better for softies.
 
I think it also might have to do with how fast phos/trates are lowered. Everything should be a gradual transition...... The slower the better.
 

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