Waterchanges might be a farce

[Tiki Reef Joshua]

Ok

 

[Scorpius]

I think posting a thread about the validity of water changes should be a 1 week ban.

 

[forestsofkelp]

I am surprised its still even debated, since I think everyone agrees detritus/waste needs to be removed and elements need to be repleted. It doesnt really matter how you do it. No need to overthink it. Many ways to skin a cat. I think the interesting thing is the change in things once thought essential and now considered dangerous/risky..for example DSBs. Although, I think it would be interesting to run a remote DSB (so it could be removed without fouling the tank) and restart it every few years.

Also for some reason I just imagined being at a bar at a reef convention and someone standing, pointing, and drunkenly yelling "water changes are a FARCE!" and the entire room going silent before erupting in a huge hullabaloo

 

[JohnnyBlowfish]

I've been researching phyto reactors for my new build. They seem to be really popular in Europe. As far as water changes, I have had success with both methods. I had a 45 mixed reef that I ran for several years and did almost no water changes due to my job at the time. That was one of the most stable, successful tanks I've ever had. I could put anything in it and it would thrive. However, my 130 gallon required bi-weekly water changes to keep the parameters in check. Things would go south quickly without them. IMO each tank is its own unique ecosystem and therefore will require different levels of care.

 

[BeltedCoyote]

I've been researching phyto reactors for my new build. They seem to be really popular in Europe. As far as water changes, I have had success with both methods. I had a 45 mixed reef that I ran for several years and did almost no water changes due to my job at the time. That was one of the most stable, successful tanks I've ever had. I could put anything in it and it would thrive. However, my 130 gallon required bi-weekly water changes to keep the parameters in check. Things would go south quickly without them. IMO each tank is its own ecosystem and therefore will require different levels of care.

ooh looks fancy. I wonder how available such reactors are here in the US!

 

[Costareefer]

If you have lots of nutrient loving corals like softies and lps of course you can get by with less WC. Remember though it’s a closed system and there needs to be a continuous dilution or else the orgánics will build up and bite you in the long run. I don’t think there is a one size fits all approach to water changes. Bioload, the types of coral, the size of the system, all sources of filtration are part of the equation.

 

[SixtyFeetUnder]

Hm, I will try to siphon from the sump and see what happens. Will be tough with my setup, but possible

Shopvacs work well for this and to clean detritus in the sump. I do it when my sump starts looking like it has detritus build up.

 

[JohnnyBlowfish]

ooh looks fancy. I wonder how available such reactors are here in the US!

That's where I am currently in my research. It seems BRS may have carried them for a short time but discontinued them. I'm hoping to source one without paying shipping from the UK. But I may just have to pay up.

 

[BeltedCoyote]

That's where I am currently in my research. It seems BRS may have carried them for a short time but discontinued them. I'm hoping to source one without paying shipping from the UK. But I may just have to pay up.

keep us posted with your findings. I’m planning on going the phyto culturing and dosing route. If such reactors are available and not stupidly costly I’ll add it to the ever growing gear list and pray my lady doesn’t murder me for the expense LOL

 

[Gribbliest]

No changes in 2 years, sps dominant...

 

[K7BMG]

So my background is reefing since 2005.

I use to be this big believer in bimonthly waterchanges .... but now slowly AND firmly changing my mind.

First off, I'm not a SPSer (acros and the like) ... thats a whooooole different ballgame. I'm a LPS'er, heavily involved in zoas/palys

Okay...to the point of this post:

Ever since discovering dosing the strain of blue-green Phytoplankton... im starting to truly believe that waterchanges are only really necessary for major/minor element control that get low or high.

So I'm asking myself;

"If I'm doing regular waterchanges "just because...", am I taking out all that good biochemistry that includes built up phytoplankton? I mean... look at a natural reef swarming in blue-green phytoplankton giving that ocean reef water that turquoise look"

"Is adding brand new saltwater putting a stress on my little ecosystem, where this new water has to biochemically cook and convert??"

Ever since:

* slowing down my waterchanges

* using my skimming to more-wet

* dosing blue-green strain of phytoplankton

* dosing trace elements thru a product called Replinish

* testing and looking for out of range Calcium, Alk and Mag

..... Im seeing mushrooms, zoas, palys plump up to sizes ive never seen before.

So religious Waterchanger ppl might say "What about nitrate/Phosphate control? You gotta change your water every 2 weeks!"

In some mild researching, I'm reading how dosing the strain of Blue-Green Phytoplankton OUTCOMPETES nuisance algae and makes for a more balanced tank.

I'm reeeeally starting to think regular waterchanges is dumping good biochemical water down the drain that worked so hard to achieve a balance.

If I can control my NO3 and PO4 thru heavy skimming, dosing phytoplankton .... why would I do a waterchange UNLESS smthg like Calcium or Carbonate or Magnesium was off?

And if I can dose major and minor elements to keep them within range...AND my no3/po4 are in check... why do a waterchange?

Dilute my biochemistry and the phytoplankton > zooplankton > corals and fish ecosystem chain (?)

To where new saltwater has to "re-cook" that biochemistry?

WHATS YOUR OPINION ON WATERCHANGES????




.

Interesting thoughts you have. Kudos
I feel we need to do water changes. I would rather not do them at all ever.
I feel based on your comparison theory we can't compare the ocean to our small enclosed ecosystems.
I agree we are literally draining some good stuff along with the bad but that's just the way it is.

 

[Smarkow]

I culture my own. I started with some phyto from a local company a few years ago. They are no longer open, but one of the partners started his own business doing the same thing. His name is Sam and he is a great guy.

here is the link to his website. You can give him a call, as he is still working out the website and such. He does ship, as well.

SEAHORSE SAM AQUACULTURE - Google Search

Whoa, nice link/hookup

Need to see if he will ship those ghost shrimp regularly

 

[Smarkow]

For what it is worth, I agree with your thoughts on water changes!

Thanks for sharing

 

[DennistheMenace]

I do not do water changes on any of my tanks anymore. Occasionally they may get a replenishment of new water due to the skimmer removing some or I remove detritus from the sump. But nothing major or scheduled.

I do dose phyto on all of the tanks via a drip that runs all day and night. This includes my sps dominated tank. All other major and minor elements are dosed. Skimmers are half wet/half dry, so to speak.

Since dosing phyto regularly, things just do better. Almost no algae on glass, none on the rocks, PE and growth like no tomorrow from sps, fat lps and zoas, plus my micro critter population is massive. My fuge makes more macro then I know what to do with as well. No3 stays at 10 and po4 at .08. Which is right where I want them.

In my opinion, I think phyto is a big element of a tank that gets overlooked.

On a side note. I used to do religious water changes. Had to leave for a month for work, wife could not fathom how to do a water change, so they were not done. She also misunderstood my phyto dosing schedule and was dumping loads of phyto in and not what I told here. Came back from the trip and tanks never looked better. From then on, I just matched what she was dumping in the tanks via a drip over the day and went with it. I did have to buy some more dosing pumps, but those have paid for themselves with not having to buy a ton of salt.

I also dose phyto daily. What is your dosage per gallon? I have been doing 50ml/day on a system of about 200 gallons. Everything seems happy, but I would love to get an idea before playing with the dosage.

 

[Steve Elb]

So my background is reefing since 2005.

I use to be this big believer in bimonthly waterchanges .... but now slowly AND firmly changing my mind.

First off, I'm not a SPSer (acros and the like) ... thats a whooooole different ballgame. I'm a LPS'er, heavily involved in zoas/palys

Okay...to the point of this post:

Ever since discovering dosing the strain of blue-green Phytoplankton... im starting to truly believe that waterchanges are only really necessary for major/minor element control that get low or high.

So I'm asking myself;

"If I'm doing regular waterchanges "just because...", am I taking out all that good biochemistry that includes built up phytoplankton? I mean... look at a natural reef swarming in blue-green phytoplankton giving that ocean reef water that turquoise look"

"Is adding brand new saltwater putting a stress on my little ecosystem, where this new water has to biochemically cook and convert??"

Ever since:

* slowing down my waterchanges

* using my skimming to more-wet

* dosing blue-green strain of phytoplankton

* dosing trace elements thru a product called Replinish

* testing and looking for out of range Calcium, Alk and Mag

..... Im seeing mushrooms, zoas, palys plump up to sizes ive never seen before.

So religious Waterchanger ppl might say "What about nitrate/Phosphate control? You gotta change your water every 2 weeks!"

In some mild researching, I'm reading how dosing the strain of Blue-Green Phytoplankton OUTCOMPETES nuisance algae and makes for a more balanced tank.

I'm reeeeally starting to think regular waterchanges is dumping good biochemical water down the drain that worked so hard to achieve a balance.

If I can control my NO3 and PO4 thru heavy skimming, dosing phytoplankton .... why would I do a waterchange UNLESS smthg like Calcium or Carbonate or Magnesium was off?

And if I can dose major and minor elements to keep them within range...AND my no3/po4 are in check... why do a waterchange?

Dilute my biochemistry and the phytoplankton > zooplankton > corals and fish ecosystem chain (?)

To where new saltwater has to "re-cook" that biochemistry?

WHATS YOUR OPINION ON WATERCHANGES????




.

I do regular water changes. The fish always seem to dig it. Also I have a heavily stocked mixed reef with plenty of sps.

 

[Dakippy]

I stopped doing 20% water changes a while ago in my 32 bio cube. I do maybeee 1 or 2 gallons per water change now. I just suck up all the crap in the sand bed. Every time I would do a 20% change I would get a mini Dino bloom.

 

[Spieg]

I religiously do a routine 20-25% WC every 6 months or so (except when I don't).

 

[bobbyM]

If you are wet skimming at the same time saying you rarely do water changes, what are you replacing the wet skim with? The phyto you are buying from your buddy In the phyto selling business? Lol jk

 

[Daveyy]

I don't think that is debatable. We do water changes to either dilute built up things, or replace used up things.

Why isn't it debatable when OP have solution to remove built up things and to able to replace used up things like what OP had just said?

 

[Scorpius]

Why isn't it debatable when OP have solution to remove built up things and to able to replace used up things like what OP had just said?

There's no 100% certainty that the OP is removing and replacing everything that needs to be.