Waterchanges might be a farce

[Rjmul]

Interesting thread read 7/8 pages and only found one mention of carbon dosing.

I agree with the sentiment that if you're doing water changes to control nutrients you're doing it wrong. Look at melevs reef. He's been "battling" nitrates with a plethora of tools including water changes and he's not having much success lowering nutrients. I have a 20 long brackish set up as well and a 5 gallon planted tank. The 5 gallon literally gets zero water changes. Except I've started water plants with water from that tank. The brackish is a whole other story. I can't grow plants in there (besides a long mangrove). I can't run a skimmer. And I can't carbon dose. So that gets a 25% water change weekly. I've never tested that tank ever. Not even during cycle

I have a 65 gallon reef tank with no sump or refugium. I do not rely on water changes for anything other then solving boredom. I do not have a rodi unit, I buy gallons of distilled water from Walgreens for top off.
it's a relatively young tank as I caught the upgrade bug 4 times since I started in this hobby about 2 years aho


I run a bh1000 skimmer by reef octopus.
My nitrates will not go over 3
And my phosphates stay around .08.
I dose 20 mil of all for reef a day
200 mil of kalk a day
And 2 mil of nopox
I'm back and fourth wondering if I need to dose aminos but I've settled around 1 mil of Acro power daily
My tank is over stocked and I know it. Yet I only do a 7% water change maybe once a month only if I feel like it
I dose by hand about 20-40 mil of phyto daily. Yesterday I got the idea to dilute that down with tank water and drip it throughout the day. I'm still fine tuning it

Also worth mentioning
I feed new life spectrum pellets via auto feeder 4 times a day. I feed a whole sheet of nori to one kole tang. Three mollies, and one lawnmower blenny every day. I also feed live baby brine shrimp as many days out of the weeks as I can feasibly hatch them. I feed either rods or LRS or mysis or fish eggs at least twice a day

 

[rmurken]

Dry skim gang approves this message

Lol. “Dry skim gang ain’t nothing to....”

 

[Midrats]

Interesting thread read 7/8 pages and only found one mention of carbon dosing.

I agree with the sentiment that if you're doing water changes to control nutrients you're doing it wrong. Look at melevs reef. He's been "battling" nitrates with a plethora of tools including water changes and he's not having much success lowering nutrients. I have a 20 long brackish set up as well and a 5 gallon planted tank. The 5 gallon literally gets zero water changes. Except I've started water plants with water from that tank. The brackish is a whole other story. I can't grow plants in there (besides a long mangrove). I can't run a skimmer. And I can't carbon dose. So that gets a 25% water change weekly. I've never tested that tank ever. Not even during cycle

I have a 65 gallon reef tank with no sump or refugium. I do not rely on water changes for anything other then solving boredom. I do not have a rodi unit, I buy gallons of distilled water from Walgreens for top off.
it's a relatively young tank as I caught the upgrade bug 4 times since I started in this hobby about 2 years aho


I run a bh1000 skimmer by reef octopus.
My nitrates will not go over 3
And my phosphates stay around .08.
I dose 20 mil of all for reef a day
200 mil of kalk a day
And 2 mil of nopox
I'm back and fourth wondering if I need to dose aminos but I've settled around 1 mil of Acro power daily
My tank is over stocked and I know it. Yet I only do a 7% water change maybe once a month only if I feel like it
I dose by hand about 20-40 mil of phyto daily. Yesterday I got the idea to dilute that down with tank water and drip it throughout the day. I'm still fine tuning it

Also worth mentioning
I feed new life spectrum pellets via auto feeder 4 times a day. I feed a whole sheet of nori to one kole tang. Three mollies, and one lawnmower blenny every day. I also feed live baby brine shrimp as many days out of the weeks as I can feasibly hatch them. I feed either rods or LRS or mysis or fish eggs at least twice a day

Kalkwasser won't keep up with your demand? Just trying to figure out why you dose AFR. I have some AFR but don't plan to use it until fully saturated kalkwasser can't keep up anymore.

 

[Rjmul]

Kalkwasser won't keep up with your demand? Just trying to figure out why you dose AFR. I have some AFR but don't plan to use it until fully saturated kalkwasser can't keep up anymore.

Kalk might be able to keep up with my demand but I'd need a lot more then 200 mils. My kalk container is only a gallon. I run it for PH mostly. If I go over 200 mil my magnesium starts getting out of whack

 

[wonroc]

Well hopefully you vac the sand during a change. This is a better type of water change

 

[Midrats]

Less than a cup of kalkwasser throws your magnesium out of whack?

 

[AngryOwl]

Just had this debate Saturday night... Why do people get so worked up when someone suggests water changes are not a necessity? The reality is they're not...

As others have stated there are alternative methods to water changes, carbon dosing, ozone, carbon, algae scubbers, fuges, trace element dosing, 2-part, kalk, calcium reactors, mechanical filtration, etc. etc. If you're doing even a subset of these things why would you change out water? What are you trying to replace or remove? For any avid water changer I would bet if you performed an ICP you're trace elements would be depleted (pending you're not dosing something like all-for-reef). A lot of people here are claiming you do water changes to replace trace elements... what trace elements? Alk, calc, mag? or the full panel we can test for using ICP? Aside from the big 3 I would be confident to bet your system is using those other major and minor trace elements faster than you can change water. Don't believe me? Just do an ICP and check for yourself, let me know if I'm wrong lol

As a caveat, I think water changes are better for smaller systems (sub 40ish gallons) with limited consumption and for people who don't want to implement all of the things I listed above. Which is perfectly fine.

Water changes suck to perform... aside from maybe 1% of reefers who enjoy them - who wants to spend their weekend mixing up and changing water? Not me! My guess why people are so bent up about this topic is because people doing water changes feel like their method of reefing is being attacked and it goes against the grain of what everyone says "you need to do water changes"... no one is doing that... do whatever method works for you and whatever you enjoy... but the simple reality is they are not required and understand there are other alternatives out there.


No water changes 15 months, 230g system (2 years old), skimmer, algae reactor, calcium reactor, clarisea, kalk, PO4 .05-.1, NO3 40-50. Monthly ICP testing and replacement of trace elements via reef moonshiners elements. Easy and less time consuming than water changes

 

[paintman]

It takes you an entire weekend to do a water change?

 

[AngryOwl]

It takes you an entire weekend to do a water change?

Correct, that was the key takeaway - I am slow at water changes ;Hilarious

 

[Skibum]

So I haven't changed my water in 3 1/2 years with a couple of caveats. I had an AEFW breakout last year which really took a toll on my system. I treated the water with that garbage Underwater creations made.. can't remember the name of it. I also treated with KZ. If it hadn't been for those things whacking my chemistry, I would have had a tank more full of SPS/Acros. Alas, I had to do a 50% water change to settle things down, and that didn't even really help. What did help was time... lots and lots of time. In all 3 1/2 since I had this system, I'd say I've replaced the water (in total) about 150%. Granted, I moved the tank 4 TIMES! Apartment->Apartment->House->House. It's a RS-250

Filtration:

Aquarium Solutions Filter roller
Reef Octo Skimmer, skims wet
Tunze Hair Algae reactor

Dosing:

Aquamedic The Big 3 + Amino Acids daily

Water is replaced via auto topoff.

I seem to be growing Acros and Montis just fine. These pics are taken approximately 11 months after the big AEFW infestation and subsequent crash. I tried doing Glenn Fongs DSR method but that too proved too much work for me (I'm super lazy with my tank). Last time I tested Alk was about 2 weeks ago, it was around 7dkh.

The debate over whether or not no WC works or not is settled. The debate is really centered around which one is BETTER. For me, not changing water is a great way to stay in the hobby without spending a ton of cash on salt. Personally, I think a way bigger challenge in the hobby is pest removal. WC or no WC is really an irrelevant argument unless you want to start a flame war on the boards ;-).

 

[Alexreefer]

So my background is reefing since 2005.

I use to be this big believer in bimonthly waterchanges .... but now slowly AND firmly changing my mind.

First off, I'm not a SPSer (acros and the like) ... thats a whooooole different ballgame. I'm a LPS'er, heavily involved in zoas/palys

Okay...to the point of this post:

Ever since discovering dosing the strain of blue-green Phytoplankton... im starting to truly believe that waterchanges are only really necessary for major/minor element control that get low or high.

So I'm asking myself;

"If I'm doing regular waterchanges "just because...", am I taking out all that good biochemistry that includes built up phytoplankton? I mean... look at a natural reef swarming in blue-green phytoplankton giving that ocean reef water that turquoise look"

"Is adding brand new saltwater putting a stress on my little ecosystem, where this new water has to biochemically cook and convert??"

Ever since:

* slowing down my waterchanges

* using my skimming to more-wet

* dosing blue-green strain of phytoplankton

* dosing trace elements thru a product called Replinish

* testing and looking for out of range Calcium, Alk and Mag

..... Im seeing mushrooms, zoas, palys plump up to sizes ive never seen before.

So religious Waterchanger ppl might say "What about nitrate/Phosphate control? You gotta change your water every 2 weeks!"

In some mild researching, I'm reading how dosing the strain of Blue-Green Phytoplankton OUTCOMPETES nuisance algae and makes for a more balanced tank.

I'm reeeeally starting to think regular waterchanges is dumping good biochemical water down the drain that worked so hard to achieve a balance.

If I can control my NO3 and PO4 thru heavy skimming, dosing phytoplankton .... why would I do a waterchange UNLESS smthg like Calcium or Carbonate or Magnesium was off?

And if I can dose major and minor elements to keep them within range...AND my no3/po4 are in check... why do a waterchange?

Dilute my biochemistry and the phytoplankton > zooplankton > corals and fish ecosystem chain (?)

To where new saltwater has to "re-cook" that biochemistry?

WHATS YOUR OPINION ON WATERCHANGES????




.

Where are you getting your blue an green phyto from? Do you harvest it yourself? (in that case where did you get the starting colony from) or do you just buy pre packed bottles?

 

[sde1500]

Where are you getting your blue an green phyto from? Do you harvest it yourself? (in that case where did you get the starting colony from) or do you just buy pre packed bottles?

He said where on the second page of the thread. Below:

Mercer of Montana

Their competitor AlgaeBarn has a product called OceanMagik !BUT! you can NOT culture AlgaeBarn's stuff. Its strictly pour it in the tank and reorder a new bottle every month ;Drool

Mercer's (pictured above) you can absolutely cultivate yourself with a jug, airstone and a strong light.

With a little YouTube researching on How To Cultivate Phyto.... you'll have gallons of live phyto to feed your tank. More than you'll need. S

ome ppl bottle their excess in 32oz Gatorade containers and sell it thru local ReefClubs and Craigslist

FYI....Best Live Phyto is less than 4 weeks old.

Most stuff at LFS (like PhytoFeast) is mainly dead phyto bc of how long it took the LFS to sell it

HTH



.

 

[MichaelReefer]

Moved six months ago, upgraded from a Reefer 250 to a 525XL. Have not done one water change since I filled the tank. Run Kalk, Seachem Reef Plus and Reef Trace, Red Sea AB and Phyto. Have a strong and healthy system, corals are growing like weeds, and essentially no pest algae at all.

 

[Alexreefer]

He said where on the second page of the thread. Below:

Thanks for all the info! Will definitely look into cultivating some

 

[Woodneers]

I have gallons of this strain! The issue I am having is if I dose it I get this dark algae on my glass and rocks. Anyone else having this issue? If anyone needs any of this please head over to the for sale section and look at my posting.

 

[elysics]

Mercer of Montana sells both Nannochloropsis and Tetraselmis algae on ebay, the bottle in that pic is Nannochloropsis. Neither of those are "blue-green algae" though, that would be Synechococcus, a type of cyanobacteria, which can also be cultured, not sold by that company though. I don't see them claiming anything as blue green algae either, maybe some middleman got confused there.

 

[sde1500]

Mercer of Montana sells both Nannochloropsis and Tetraselmis algae on ebay, the bottle in that pic is Nannochloropsis. Neither of those are "blue-green algae" though, that would be Synechococcus, a type of cyanobacteria, which can also be cultured, not sold by that company though. I don't see them claiming anything as blue green algae either, maybe some middleman got confused there.

Yea I wouldn’t call it blue/green algae. I culture both those varieties. Nothing blue/green about them. Bright green, but the tank seems to love it. I add two gallons per week to the tank.

I have gallons of this strain! The issue I am having is if I dose it I get this dark algae on my glass and rocks. Anyone else having this issue? If anyone needs any of this please head over to the for sale section and look at my posting.

I have Nanno and Tet, what algae are you seeing from it? Not sure I’ve seen any crop up from mine. I’ve noticed a new reddish dusty like algae, not cyano got some of that too, but can’t link it to the phyto.

 

[Woodneers]

Yea I wouldn’t call it blue/green algae. I culture both those varieties. Nothing blue/green about them. Bright green, but the tank seems to love it. I add two gallons per week to the tank.

I have Nanno and Tet, what algae are you seeing from it? Not sure I’ve seen any crop up from mine. I’ve noticed a new reddish dusty like algae, not cyano got some of that too, but can’t link it to the phyto.

Its a little odd honestly. First off I accredit dosing phyto to ridding my tank of dinos. Afterward I started seeing green cyanobacteria followed now by a brown film on the glass daily if I don't keep it knocked down. I haven't checked it under a white light so it may be green film algae. On top of all of that I'm a couple weeks into a new tank build where everything from the old tank has moved over after a thorough cleaning with a brush. I plan to wait it out a bit and see what happens. Ill keep a dose of 1ml to 5 gallons of water which for me is 60ml per day. Please feel free to sanity check me as this dosing phyto is all new to me! I do have gallons of the stuff and if it doesnt start moving quicker ill have to start dumping it out.

 

[Robert123]

So my background is reefing since 2005.

I use to be this big believer in bimonthly waterchanges .... but now slowly AND firmly changing my mind.

First off, I'm not a SPSer (acros and the like) ... thats a whooooole different ballgame. I'm a LPS'er, heavily involved in zoas/palys

Okay...to the point of this post:

Ever since discovering dosing the strain of blue-green Phytoplankton... im starting to truly believe that waterchanges are only really necessary for major/minor element control that get low or high.

So I'm asking myself;

"If I'm doing regular waterchanges "just because...", am I taking out all that good biochemistry that includes built up phytoplankton? I mean... look at a natural reef swarming in blue-green phytoplankton giving that ocean reef water that turquoise look"

"Is adding brand new saltwater putting a stress on my little ecosystem, where this new water has to biochemically cook and convert??"

Ever since:

* slowing down my waterchanges

* using my skimming to more-wet

* dosing blue-green strain of phytoplankton

* dosing trace elements thru a product called Replinish

* testing and looking for out of range Calcium, Alk and Mag

..... Im seeing mushrooms, zoas, palys plump up to sizes ive never seen before.

So religious Waterchanger ppl might say "What about nitrate/Phosphate control? You gotta change your water every 2 weeks!"

In some mild researching, I'm reading how dosing the strain of Blue-Green Phytoplankton OUTCOMPETES nuisance algae and makes for a more balanced tank.

I'm reeeeally starting to think regular waterchanges is dumping good biochemical water down the drain that worked so hard to achieve a balance.

If I can control my NO3 and PO4 thru heavy skimming, dosing phytoplankton .... why would I do a waterchange UNLESS smthg like Calcium or Carbonate or Magnesium was off?

And if I can dose major and minor elements to keep them within range...AND my no3/po4 are in check... why do a waterchange?

Dilute my biochemistry and the phytoplankton > zooplankton > corals and fish ecosystem chain (?)

To where new saltwater has to "re-cook" that biochemistry?

WHATS YOUR OPINION ON WATERCHANGES????




.

What phytoplankton are you using?

 

[Rjmul]

Well hopefully you vac the sand during a change. This is a better type of water change

On a long enough timeline. Yes

and when I said "over 200 mil" I'm talking like 800 mil more than 200. When I was running a quart a day mag got out of line. I backed it down to basically nothing and I'm letting all for reef do the heavy(er) lifting