Weird White Spots on Hippo Tang

[LikeRichMahogany]

After 3 months of being in a holding tank about 2 weeks ago, I finally got all my fish into my new display. Yesterday I woke up and there were a few white spots. I just went to look at him and he's got a big cluster in a circle around his mouth. What can I do?

 

[LikeRichMahogany]

I am having a hard time believing it's ich, as These fish have all gone through Extensive quarantine. Freshwater dip, followed by formalin bath, then 30 days in copper safe, a second freshwater dip, three back-to-back treatments of prazipro, with water changes between, 7 days apart, another freshwater dip, then drip acclimated and added to the tank. Unless they picked something up that came in on a coral in my previous tank, it seems very unlikely

 

[LikeRichMahogany]

I am having a hard time believing it's ich, as These fish have all gone through Extensive quarantine. Freshwater dip, followed by formalin bath, then 30 days in copper safe, a second freshwater dip, three back-to-back treatments of prazipro, with water changes between, 7 days apart, another freshwater dip, then drip acclimated and added to the tank. Unless they picked something up that came in on a coral in my previous tank, it seems very unlikely

This is a picture from yesterday for reference. Some small white dots spread out on his body. Today there is more, along with the big clump by its face.

 

[threebuoys]

I am having a hard time believing it's ich, as These fish have all gone through Extensive quarantine. Freshwater dip, followed by formalin bath, then 30 days in copper safe, a second freshwater dip, three back-to-back treatments of prazipro, with water changes between, 7 days apart, another freshwater dip, then drip acclimated and added to the tank. Unless they picked something up that came in on a coral in my previous tank, it seems very unlikely

Sounds as if you followed all of the QT protocols, so I understand why you don't suspect crypto.

When I enlarge the picture I do see what appears to be small spots along the side and head of the fish. Are those air bubbles or just poor quality picture? If you had n't followed protocols, I would have suggested crypto or velvet.

The area to the bottom and side of the mouth looks more like a bacterial infection to me.

#fishmedic

 

[threebuoys]

What level did you run Copper Safe?

 

[threebuoys]

Also, how long since you transferred them to the DT? Is it possible the DT was carrying crypto but it had not shown?

 

[MnFish1]

The thing is - if you did (and I'll assume you did) - follow all of the protocols - including the dips, etc, I'm not sure there is a magic answer - BUT -

1. Lets say you followed the protocols - but messed up somewhere with cross contimination (I know thats not likely)
2. Lets say you followed everything but your copper levels were not accurate (also unlikely)
3. Did you have the fish in a separate 'QT tank' - with no rock, sand, etc - that may have adsorbed or decomposed Prazipro more quickly than hoped.
4. Copper sometimes can actually cause a 'rash' on tangs by itself.
5. Sometimes there can be bacterial infections that follow irritation from copper.
6. If there is any possibility that some of your old tank rock (or coral, etc) had been in the presence of CI/velvet - and it wasn't fallowed or cleaned (obviously you can't clean the coral) - it could very well be CI (which is what it looks like to me - despite your best efforts)
7. QT is not 100 percent effective 'all of the time'.

To me - It still looks like Cryptocaryon.

 

[vetteguy53081]

After 3 months of being in a holding tank about 2 weeks ago, I finally got all my fish into my new display. Yesterday I woke up and there were a few white spots. I just went to look at him and he's got a big cluster in a circle around his mouth. What can I do?

Looks like bacterial tufts but can also be parasitical
Can you provide side shots? This one is at an angle

 

[carmodpg]

Could be Lymphocystis. Very common, I have a tang that has it from poor water quality at LFS.

Lymphocystis

Lymphocystis What You Need To Know: * This is a virus that many fish carry for life. The white nodules (cauliflower-like growths) can grow both externally and internally; so symptoms are not always visible. * There is no known cure for Lympho. However, feeding vitamin-enriched foods and...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[LikeRichMahogany]

What level did you run Copper Safe?

I believe I ran 1.5 ppm for the hippo and 2.0 for the others. If I remember correctly hippos are more susceptible to copper in some forms. I tested daily to make sure it stayed within therapeutic ranges though

 

[LikeRichMahogany]

Looks like bacterial tufts but can also be parasitical
Can you provide side shots? This one is at an angle

 

[LikeRichMahogany]

It's also worth mentioning my water is someone cloudier today- could potentially be that a bacterial bloom is occuring and he has an infection on a wound? He has a history of hurting himself, as referenced by his right fin which is bent in half

 

[LikeRichMahogany]

Could be Lymphocystis. Very common, I have a tang that has it from poor water quality at LFS.

Lymphocystis

Lymphocystis What You Need To Know: * This is a virus that many fish carry for life. The white nodules (cauliflower-like growths) can grow both externally and internally; so symptoms are not always visible. * There is no known cure for Lympho. However, feeding vitamin-enriched foods and...

www.reef2reef.com

I had that thought initially as well, but in my experience with several fish that have had it, it usually appears on the dorsal and pectoral fins, whereas this is all on the main body of the fish, with the large clump near it's mouth

 

[LikeRichMahogany]

Definitely a possibility. I spent a lot of time to make sure it didn't, but I wouldn't say impossible. The fish were quarantined before introduction to the old display, and we're kept in a bare bottom holding tank for three months before finally being move to the new DT. I never got a biome test done so I can't say for certain if it was there or not

Also, how long since you transferred them to the DT? Is it possible the DT was carrying crypto but it had not shown?

 

[LikeRichMahogany]

The thing is - if you did (and I'll assume you did) - follow all of the protocols - including the dips, etc, I'm not sure there is a magic answer - BUT -

1. Lets say you followed the protocols - but messed up somewhere with cross contimination (I know thats not likely)
2. Lets say you followed everything but your copper levels were not accurate (also unlikely)
3. Did you have the fish in a separate 'QT tank' - with no rock, sand, etc - that may have adsorbed or decomposed Prazipro more quickly than hoped.
4. Copper sometimes can actually cause a 'rash' on tangs by itself.
5. Sometimes there can be bacterial infections that follow irritation from copper.
6. If there is any possibility that some of your old tank rock (or coral, etc) had been in the presence of CI/velvet - and it wasn't fallowed or cleaned (obviously you can't clean the coral) - it could very well be CI (which is what it looks like to me - despite your best efforts)
7. QT is not 100 percent effective 'all of the time'.

To me - It still looks like Cryptocaryon.

Trust me I know it's not full proof. Unlikely is the word I used.

These fish were not recently quarantined either. My old tank had a few hundred corals and none of the corals were quarantined, so the possibility that something came in is there. I also haven't had a chance to plumb up my UV sterilizer yet, so I'm running without one at the moment

 

[Cool tangs]

Interesting, it kinda looks like velvet on the side with that sheen and a bacterial infection on his mouth

Can you do anymore photos under white light? @LikeRichMahogany

@Jay Hemdal thoughts?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Interesting, it kinda looks like velvet on the side with that sheen and a bacterial infection on his mouth

Can you do anymore photos under white light? @LikeRichMahogany

@Jay Hemdal thoughts?

I think velvet would also show really fast breathing.

I agree it looks like a bacterial infection from an injury on its mouth. Additional photos would help.

It could also be idiopathic mucus plugs that blue tangs get so often.

Mucus - The Slime That Binds

Mucus: The Slime that Binds Jay Hemdal C. 2020 This article examines the various causes of excess mucus coatings on fish, as well as fecal mucus issues. ------------------- The mucus produced by the fish’s epidermal cells gives them their...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[threebuoys]

I believe I ran 1.5 ppm for the hippo and 2.0 for the others. If I remember correctly hippos are more susceptible to copper in some forms. I tested daily to make sure it stayed within therapeutic ranges though

As you consider if the spots are crypto or mucus or something else, keep in mind that the recommended dose for Copper Safe or Copper Power on the bottle is 2.50 ppm. While it can be difficult maintaining the concentration precisely, we caution that if the concentration drops below 2.0, the 30 day clock needs to be restarted. So I usually try to keep the concentration between 2.25 and 2.50.

I understand your caution about using too high a concentration of copper, but the fact is that the only time the copper is effective is when the crypto parasites are in the free-swimming theront stage and that the likelihood that some will survive doses lower than 2.0 for any length of time is higher than we wish. Should some theronts survive and attach to the hippo unnoticed, you may contaminate the DT. Some opt to use hyposalinity rather than copper for species they are concerned will not tolerate copper.

edit: BTW, I like that big sailfin behind the hippo!

 

[vetteguy53081]

You’re gonna hate me:
Pics are too blue to see anything
Any with white lighting?

 

[LikeRichMahogany]

I think velvet would also show really fast breathing.

I agree it looks like a bacterial infection from an injury on its mouth. Additional photos would help.

It could also be idiopathic mucus plugs that blue tangs get so often.

Mucus - The Slime That Binds

Mucus: The Slime that Binds Jay Hemdal C. 2020 This article examines the various causes of excess mucus coatings on fish, as well as fecal mucus issues. ------------------- The mucus produced by the fish’s epidermal cells gives them their...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

So the last time a fish of mine got a bacterial infection I tried to catch it and ultimately made things worse and the fish died.

Is this something where feeding a good diet will resolve it on it it's own, or do you think I need to bring the fish into a QT and treat for the infection?

Velvet is less of a concern for me, I've seen that before in my own tank and the fish were dropping like flies. If I start seeing that I'll pull the dry rock, dose copper, and add some biomedia. I've done it before And I can do it again