What are stable parameters?+Kalkwasser question

[andrewkg]

Few month old tank 80G total water volume RS300XL w/ 10ATO + ~3Gal red sea ATO. Am curious what level of fluctuation is normal/even considered stable. Here’s my results for periodic testing in Sept. Nothing too intense in the tank mix of some LPS few SPS and mushrooms/Zoas +fish. Seems like big spike to me in Alk (not surprising given Kalkwasser), but trying to iron out kinks/swings before adding anything too fancy. Everything except Nitrate and PH are using Hannah checkers.

Date	Temp	Salinity	Calcium	Alk	Phosphate	Nitrate	PH	Notes
9/2/2020	77	1.027	466	8.1	0.14	2.5	8.15-8.30
9/7/2020	76.1	1.024	420	7.9	0.37	2.5	8.15-8.30
9/12/2020	76.3	1.025	453	8.3	0.16	0.25	8.15-8.30	4 Tbsp Kalkwasser in 10G ATO
9/17/2020	76.5	1.025	450	9.7	0.28	0.25	8.3-8.4

Kalkwasser question - currently running my ATO into Red Sea ATO to keep it is as consistent as possible (minimize risk of pump stuck on dumping into the tank v filling reservoir and float valve shutting off - to avoid PH spike), Know you’re not supposed to mix Kalk once mixed first time - but what wondering if this may present any issues in this setup? Thanks

 

[Alchameth]

Not sure on that whole mix again once mixed. I use a kalk stirrer so once a month or so I put 1/4-1/3 cup in the stirrer and it's always mixing ATK adds to that and that overflows into my sump.

 

[Miller535]

As far as your chart, I think you alk and cal look good until the last entry, going from 8.3dkh to 9.7dkh in 5 days is a lot. And with your stock list you don't need to be that high. Your nitrates are also trending low, I would make sure they don't get any lower, and your phosphates are getting high imo. I don't understand your kalkwasser question.

 

[andrewkg]

As far as your chart, I think you alk and cal look good until the last entry, going from 8.3dkh to 9.7dkh in 5 days is a lot. And with your stock list you don't need to be that high. Your nitrates are also trending low, I would make sure they don't get any lower, and your phosphates are getting high imo. I don't understand your kalkwasser question.

Thanks will lower the Kalkwasser dose - question is, is there any issue mixing the Kalk in the 10G ATO reservoir then having that pump into the smaller one that is controlled by float valve into tank. IE, goes from the blue reservoir into the rimless on left which was the built in ATO that just uses gravity and float valve.

 

[Miller535]

Thanks will lower the Kalkwasser dose - question is, is there any issue mixing the Kalk in the 10G ATO reservoir then having that pump into the smaller one that is controlled by float valve into tank. IE, goes from the blue reservoir into the rimless on left which was the built in ATO that just uses gravity and float valve.

I can't imagine that being an issue, it's not really stirring it. Many folks use ATO to dose Kalk, yours just has an extra step.

The main issue with "stirring" kalk after it mixes is the "slurry" at the bottom often contains the contaminants of the kalk itself and impurities (as well as what has already precipitated). The exception to this are kalk stirrers because they are continually dosing out of the top half and not the slurry.

 

[andrewkg]

Tested a second time and came out 9.6 for Alk - so definitely a big spike..

 

[andrewkg]

I can't imagine that being an issue, it's not really stirring it. Many folks use ATO to dose Kalk, yours just has an extra step.

The main issue with "stirring" kalk after it mixes is the "slurry" at the bottom often contains the contaminants of the kalk itself and impurities (as well as what has already precipitated). The exception to this are kalk stirrers because they are continually dosing out of the top half and not the slurry.

Ahh very helpful, thank you!

 

[PatW]

Pretty much the same advice.

Salinity. Your first reading is a bit out of whack. But the next three are consistent. It could just be a funky reading. My salinity rarely varies. It is easy to measure so I do it daily.

Calcium - fine. I have not noticed any problems with calcium as long as it does not get low. I dose mine to 450 and want it over 400. Sometimes it drops down to 430 or so and that does not seem to ever cause issues.

Alkalinity - that jump up to 9.7 is not good. The first three were fine. You want alkalinity to be as stable as possible. So I would suggest the same, dose less Kalk.

Your nitrates are dropping. I keep mine at .75 or 1 ppm. I have an SPS dominant but even at that level, my few LPS do not have any issues. In your tank, you might want to run it at between 2 and 5 ppm but for nutrients, every tank is different. Some people run low nutrients and feed the fish lavishly and let fish poop feed the corals.

Phosphorous. I keep mine lower and .03 ppm or lower is the oft suggested figure. I keep mine at that level. But I have heard people say their tanks do fine at much higher levels. If you are not having problems with algae, it is probably OK.

 

[Alchameth]

Thanks will lower the Kalkwasser dose - question is, is there any issue mixing the Kalk in the 10G ATO reservoir then having that pump into the smaller one that is controlled by float valve into tank. IE, goes from the blue reservoir into the rimless on left which was the built in ATO that just uses gravity and float valve.

You shouldn't need the pump in the top tank, don't think it matters either way. Believe I heard somewhere you don't want to store kalkwater in an uncovered container.

 

[andrewkg]

Appreciate all the help/advice here. Best course of action to do nothing and reduce Kalkwasser going forward or would you look to correct?

 

[Miller535]

You shouldn't need the pump in the top tank, don't think it matters either way. Believe I heard somewhere you don't want to store kalkwater in an uncovered container.

This is a good point that I forgot, Kalk is supposed to be covered as it is said to "loose it's potency" when exposed to the air. I am not really sure what the exact affect is, as when I topped off with kalk I just had it in a 5 gallon bucket with a lid.

 

[Miller535]

Appreciate all the help/advice here. Best course of action to do nothing and reduce Kalkwasser going forward or would you look to correct?

I would probably lower it. Maybe cut back to 3 TBS and see what happens. I am a fan of slowly lowering rather then quick adjustments.

 

[andrewkg]

Updated below, haven‘t had any visible issues - but who knows. Alk seems to be consumed at a greater rate than the Calc - so still bit of fluctuation, any thoughts? Also noting temp - adjusted heater up 1 degree recently. Going to start using GFO for a bit until system is better establish on phosphate, not sure how to increase Nitrate slightly w/ out increasing phosphate (skimmer + refugium seem to keeping Nitrate real low)

Date	Temp	Salinity	Calcium	Alk	Phosphate	Nitrate	PH	Notes
9/2/2020	77	1.027	466	8.1	0.14	2.5	8.15-8.30
9/7/2020	76.1	1.024	420	7.9	0.37	2.5	8.15-8.30
9/12/2020	76.3	1.025	453	8.3	0.16	0.25	8.15-8.30	4 Tbsp Kalkwasser in 10G ATO
9/17/2020	76.5	1.025	450	9.6	0.28	0.25	8.3-8.4
9/20/2020	77.1	1.025	453	9.2	0.31	0.25	8.3-8.4