What are the cons to using an led fixture???

reef_lover24881 · Jan 4, 2011

What are some of the cons to using an led lighting fixture?

ksc · Jan 4, 2011

Very expensive bulb replacement would be the #1 reason.

thewackyreefer · Jan 4, 2011

ksc said:
Very expensive bulb replacement would be the #1 reason.

Compared to MH or T5? Don't think so.

reef_lover24881 · Jan 4, 2011

Would the 24" Sunbrite LED Lighting Fixture provide enough light to keep my clams in my solana on the sandbed??? Anytime I look at leds it just doesnt seem as though they provide enough light.

celebrityovernight · Jan 4, 2011

reef_lover24881 said:
Would the 24" Sunbrite LED Lighting Fixture provide enough light to keep my clams in my solana on the sandbed??? Anytime I look at leds it just doesnt seem as though they provide enough light.

Depending on the light fixture you are referring to. Many of the LED fixtures out there are extremely bright and WILL bleach your corals if not properly acclimated. Having said that, I do feel that leds are not for everyone. I personally like them, but I supplement them with t-5. I've seen many tanks that run purely on LEDs alone, some corals look amazing, while some look very dull.

litenyaup · Jan 4, 2011

i just purchased 3 of the 120watt evolution led's for my new custom 67" x 26" x 25"tall 189 gallon tank, and can not wait to use them. right now i have all my coral in my 48" x 21" x 9"tall tank with an 8 bulb t5 fixture above it. i think going from that tank to the new one i wont have a bad time acclimating, because they can from a bright tank.

also i have 2 clams and feel that the led's will provide enough light for them, as well as the welso's, plate, and scoly on the sand bed. when i get it up and running, i will email you and let you know about the progress and how everything looks!

FishScale · Jan 4, 2011

reef_lover24881 said:
Would the 24" Sunbrite LED Lighting Fixture provide enough light to keep my clams in my solana on the sandbed??? Anytime I look at leds it just doesnt seem as though they provide enough light.

I've kept my clam on the sand bed for a couple months with no issues.

reefkoi · Jan 4, 2011

I have only found that the heater needs to run more, thats it I cant find anything else to complain about LED's

VelasCorals · Jan 4, 2011

I would say only initial up front costs. After than you can play around with colors and optics to create the look you want just like T5's or MH. Not a all LED fixtures are the same so try to see them in person before you buy. Once you dial it in you have a fixture you don't have to touch for 10+ years!

ksc · Jan 4, 2011

10 years? I think you've been "conned". If you get 2 years I think you'll be lucky. These consumers weren't so lucky, "Moreover, the FTC complaint states that in many instances, Lights of America’s LED bulbs would not last as long as the company’s promotional materials said they would. In one case, for example, the firm said that one of its LED recessed bulbs would last 30,000 hours. Independent tests, however, showed that the bulb would not last as long as claimed because it lost 80 percent of its light output after only 1,000 hours."

VelasCorals · Jan 4, 2011

ksc said:
10 years? I think you've been "conned". If you get 2 years I think you'll be lucky. These consumers weren't so lucky, "Moreover, the FTC complaint states that in many instances, Lights of Americaâ€™s LED bulbs would not last as long as the companyâ€™s promotional materials said they would. In one case, for example, the firm said that one of its LED recessed bulbs would last 30,000 hours. Independent tests, however, showed that the bulb would not last as long as claimed because it lost 80 percent of its light output after only 1,000 hours."

I just read your post again. Those are complaints regarding one manufacturer. You can find similar cases regarding any type of product in the world. Everything I have read over the last year has talked about LEDs lasting 5+ years before any PAR/spectrum loss and 10+ years before the bulbs have serious PAR/spectrum loss. I wouldn't give LEDs a bad name because of what manufacturer might have done with their particular product line.

Also, I just emailed Ecoxotic for more information backing up their 50,000 lifespan claims and how long their LEDs are actually "usable". I'll post what I find out.

johnanddawn · Jan 4, 2011

i would say that the number one problem with LED's is the spectrum of light they produce
LED's by nature are extremely narrow wave bands - look at the spectrum charts
see page 4 of this link
https://reefledlights.com/PDF/XLamp7090XR-E.pdf
most diyers use cool white and royal blue - observe the spectral distribution curve of these two LED's

that said though, in the right combination they offer similar spectrum peaks for the active photosynthesis curve
see here for that graph
Photosynthetically active radiation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the next consideration would be intensity
for that there are many variables: LED spacing, height, optics, wattage, water clarity - basically too many to analyze theoretically so only emperical data is useful - ie see the many PAR readings posted by reefers using different setups of LED's - my thread as well as many others have PAR numbers

the next consideration is cost - i think this has been well covered in many threads. with the given life expectencies and electrical savings LED's are actually cheaper then other sources in the long run

so then the botom line becomes the ultimate question - can LED's be used successfully in reef tanks - and the answer is YES - in the right aplication they are capable of producing reliable results with both growth and color

myself - i am having trouble with some of my sps, but would be hesitent to blaim that on LED's entirely because sps are generally more difficult and a number of tank conditions can effect them. my LPS and zoas are doing great, and at this point i am still sold on LED's and will continue to experiment with them

reef_lover24881 · Jan 5, 2011

litenyaup said:
i just purchased 3 of the 120watt evolution led's for my new custom 67" x 26" x 25"tall 189 gallon tank, and can not wait to use them. right now i have all my coral in my 48" x 21" x 9"tall tank with an 8 bulb t5 fixture above it. i think going from that tank to the new one i wont have a bad time acclimating, because they can from a bright tank.

also i have 2 clams and feel that the led's will provide enough light for them, as well as the welso's, plate, and scoly on the sand bed. when i get it up and running, i will email you and let you know about the progress and how everything looks!

That would be awesome:smile:

ksc · Jan 5, 2011

I wouldn't bother asking one of these crooked vendors what the life expectancy is. I would stay away from any vendor who makes the bogus claim of 50,000 hours lifespan, especially over a reef tank. According to the Department of Energy, the average estimated lifespan of an led is about twice that of a floro or mh bulb. As you can see, we commonly change our bulbs at about 1/10th of their "lifespan". Solid-State Lighting: Measuring Light Source Life
That said, my cree powered par38 bulbs have lost about 20 percent of their par output in the 8-9 months I've been running them. Here's another interesting finding. Funny how the t8 seems to outperform the led in these 3rd party tests....Solid-State Lighting: Lumen Depreciation

nayrgaijin · Jan 5, 2011

ksc said:
I wouldn't bother asking one of these crooked vendors what the life expectancy is. I would stay away from any vendor who makes the bogus claim of 50,000 hours lifespan, especially over a reef tank. According to the Department of Energy, the average estimated lifespan of an led is about twice that of a floro or mh bulb. As you can see, we commonly change our bulbs at about 1/10th of their "lifespan". Solid-State Lighting: Measuring Light Source Life
That said, my cree powered par38 bulbs have lost about 20 percent of their par output in the 8-9 months I've been running them. Here's another interesting finding. Funny how the t8 seems to outperform the led in these 3rd party tests....Solid-State Lighting: Lumen Depreciation

Let's watch how we talk about the vendors please. I don't agree AT ALL in you saying they are crooked.

kuyatwo · Jan 5, 2011

ksc said:
I wouldn't bother asking one of these crooked vendors what the life expectancy is. I would stay away from any vendor who makes the bogus claim of 50,000 hours lifespan, especially over a reef tank. According to the Department of Energy, the average estimated lifespan of an led is about twice that of a floro or mh bulb. As you can see, we commonly change our bulbs at about 1/10th of their "lifespan". Solid-State Lighting: Measuring Light Source Life
That said, my cree powered par38 bulbs have lost about 20 percent of their par output in the 8-9 months I've been running them. Here's another interesting finding. Funny how the t8 seems to outperform the led in these 3rd party tests....Solid-State Lighting: Lumen Depreciation

If you go by your last link at 20000 hrs you are still between 80 to 90 percent of the original lumen that is 5 1/2 years if you run your fixture 10 hours a day that is pretty darn good in my opinion. Plus that is from LEDs made in 2003 I think LEDs made now are alittle more advanced.

Also if you read it says heat is main factor why LEDs decrease I owned a couple of the evil 66 par 38 LEDs and in my opinion you needed to have a fan blowing across the small heat sink

cparka23 · Jan 5, 2011

Regarding Lights of America, they make a screw in bulb you find at Wallyworld/Home Depot to replace incandescent light bulbs. Nobody uses them as a reef product... not if the FTC has something to say about it.

ksc said:
According to the Department of Energy, the average estimated lifespan of an led is about twice that of a floro or mh bulb. As you can see, we commonly change our bulbs at about 1/10th of their "lifespan". Solid-State Lighting: Measuring Light Source Life

So you're saying that LEDs should be replaced once a year since it's got twice the lifespan of MH, which we generally change every 5-6 months?

That would make sense if they experienced similar pattern of PAR loss with use. Sanjay wrote an article that says PAR loss in MH is due to changes to the spectral output of the bulb. LEDs work a lot differently and, if kept from overheating, hold up to use longer than MH. (vvv See your graph in the next quote, for instance. vvv)

ksc said:
[...]Funny how the t8 seems to outperform the led in these 3rd party tests....Solid-State Lighting: Lumen Depreciation

I'd be careful in reading that graph. It's measuring longevity, not output or performance. Let's not restart the T8 trend.

Regardless, Aqua Illumination advertizes 5-7 years of use with 10hr/day photoperiods before you should change the LEDs out. Cree says that their LEDs produce up to 50000 hours (13.7 years on 10hr/day photoperiod) before you reach 70% of the original output. So, clearly, at least AI takes 'lumen depreciation' into account.

VelasCorals · Jan 5, 2011

Thanks for all that info. I was having a panic attack thinking I would have to replace my Ecoxotic fixture in a year. My wife would kill me.

Troylee · Jan 5, 2011

Keep em cool and you'll get over 30,000 hours... I haven't used every type of led but I have used more than prolly everyone on this forum for my job.... I build huge led displays or message units I should say... These riddle the las Vegas strip just look at any sign with the big tv's on them those have been in this city over 10yrs now and we find very rarely and outages and they run 24hrs a day 365!!!!! Granted the output I'm sure has dropped but there still going strong fwiw.... Any sign out here with LEDs in it has a full hvac system to keep them cool and it works great.....