What are your thoughts on my setup? Tips are welcome :)

[TaylorLee]

I am currently under costruction of a 125g with 40 gallon long sump/refuge FOWLR tank in hopes to eventually upgrade to a reef tank.

My soon to be setup is the following:

I bought 3 koralia 1400 model powerheads 2 of which will be in the tank and 1 to mix my saltwater.
I plan on having a ro/di system somewhere along the lines of 50-75 gpd
I have an Eshopps pf-800 HOB overflow 600/800 gph
I will eventually buy a 1/5 hp jbj artica chiller rated 180 gallons because my setup will be in my garage. (Enclosed area non A/C)
I plan on having the Eheim 1260 model universal pump rated approx. 635gph for my return pump
Im going to grab a Vertex IN-180 protien skimmer and i was concerned on the tunings it needs to be such as water level it should sit in, bubble measurements, if i need a pvc line from the return of the skimmer if it is going to be in the sump running and also will i need a pump to pump the water into the skimmer as well. (First time ever using a skimmer and id like to know what im getting into b4 i make a purchase)
Also ill be getting a 13W uv sterilizer to put in the tank as well to help keep parasites neutralized along with cleaner shrimp
im unsure on how much live rock i should put in it and my budget is kind of tight so im hoping not to spend more than about $300-$350 (55-75lbs of LR) i may go the long run and get 100lbs of LR but i've heard people have success with keeping corals with about half of what their tank size in live rock. Example 100g tank 40g sump 60lbs of LR

Any additional info would be greatly appreciated!
Feel free to criticize my ideas and correct me, id like to do it right the first time and not have to throw away money so to speak.
Thanks! -Taylor

 

[Downbeach]

I am currently under costruction of a 125g with 40 gallon long sump/refuge FOWLR tank in hopes to eventually upgrade to a reef tank.

My soon to be setup is the following:

I bought 3 koralia 1400 model powerheads 2 of which will be in the tank and 1 to mix my saltwater. You should get something with a venturi for aeration for use in your salt mixing container.
I plan on having a ro/di system somewhere along the lines of 50-75 gpd Get the 75 (better performance/rejection rate)
I have an Eshopps pf-800 HOB overflow 600/800 gph Any way you can drill the tank, instead of using a HOB?
I will eventually buy a 1/5 hp jbj artica chiller rated 180 gallons because my setup will be in my garage. (Enclosed area non A/C)
I plan on having the Eheim 1260 model universal pump rated approx. 635gph for my return pump Good pump.
Im going to grab a Vertex IN-180 protien skimmer and i was concerned on the tunings it needs to be such as water level it should sit in, bubble measurements, if i need a pvc line from the return of the skimmer if it is going to be in the sump running and also will i need a pump to pump the water into the skimmer as well. (First time ever using a skimmer and id like to know what im getting into b4 i make a purchase) If this is an "in sump" type, it should be just plug and play.
Also ill be getting a 13W uv sterilizer to put in the tank as well to help keep parasites neutralized along with cleaner shrimp Save your money here...no UV.
im unsure on how much live rock i should put in it and my budget is kind of tight so im hoping not to spend more than about $300-$350 (55-75lbs of LR) i may go the long run and get 100lbs of LR but i've heard people have success with keeping corals with about half of what their tank size in live rock. Example 100g tank 40g sump 60lbs of LR. My suggestion here is to get about 50 #'s of the Pukani dry from BRS.

Any additional info would be greatly appreciated!
Feel free to criticize my ideas and correct me, id like to do it right the first time and not have to throw away money so to speak.
Thanks! -Taylor

suggestions in red/italicized.

 

[Downbeach]

Also, have you considered what you will use for substrate?

 

[TaylorLee]

Also, have you considered what you will use for substrate?

Im thinking of live sand crushed aragonite.
with the cleaner shrimp i wont need a uv sterilizer??

 

[Downbeach]

Im thinking of live sand crushed aragonite.
with the cleaner shrimp i wont need a uv sterilizer??

UV will kill both good and bad organism's, so in a reef tank they can do more harm than good. Mostly used in a hospital or QT tank environment today. Have you considered what you're going to use for QT?
Many opinions on what or how much substrate, i.e. bare bottom, shallow or deep sand bed.
I'm a firm believer in a DSB, for this reason:
Ron Shimek's Website...Deep Sand Beds
I use this as substrateI think the "live" substrate is more wet than "live", and about 30% more expensive)
Aragamax Aquarium Sand
to keep it healthy I got most of my infauna here:
: : : : Indo-Pacific Sea Farms : : : :

So, the proper type of substrate (Aragonite), the proper size (sugar size*) and depth (3+ inches), along with the critters to keep it healthy (infauna), is what will make it successful and a benefit to your system.

*I also know some folks who have mixed the sugar size with some of the Seaflor special grade about 4:1 to accommodate borrowing inverts/jawfish.

 

[TaylorLee]

UV will kill both good and bad organism's, so in a reef tank they can do more harm than good. Mostly used in a hospital or QT tank environment today. Have you considered what you're going to use for QT?
Many opinions on what or how much substrate, i.e. bare bottom, shallow or deep sand bed.
I'm a firm believer in a DSB, for this reason:
Ron Shimek's Website...Deep Sand Beds
I use this as substrateI think the "live" substrate is more wet than "live", and about 30% more expensive)
Aragamax Aquarium Sand
to keep it healthy I got most of my infauna here:
: : : : Indo-Pacific Sea Farms : : : :

So, the proper type of substrate (Aragonite), the proper size (sugar size*) and depth (3+ inches), along with the critters to keep it healthy (infauna), is what will make it successful and a benefit to your system.

*I also know some folks who have mixed the sugar size with some of the Seaflor special grade about 4:1 to accommodate borrowing inverts/jawfish.

Thanks for all the info and links! I guess i can do a deep sand bed now. I didnt really give that much thought. And the dr fosters link was excellent! I will save tons on those bags vs a 40lbs bag for $45 at the lfs. Im not quite sure on the infauna? Will i need them at all? I could get live sand from the lfs free of charge.
I understand a QT is important to have but i dont really have the money or room for 1 so i guess ill allow the lfs to be my quarantine tank. Let them sit there for a month then purchase them. I can talk with the guy that owns the place. me and him are pretty good friends and maybe he could quaratine them for me? Or is that not such a good idea?

 

[robert]

Hi TaylorLee,

I also run a 120.

I don't know if this is your first saltwater tank or not, but going fish only to start is a good idea. Since you eventually plan on keeping some corals, keep that in mine as you make your initial fish selections.

What you have put together so far is pretty good. An overflow box will work fine. 600-800 gallons per hour is just enough for that size tank - 1200 might be better but what you have will work fine. just keep the PVC runs short and straight from the overflow to the sump. Matching the flow rate for the return pump with the overflow box is also correct. If you could drill the tank, now would be the time to do it, but if not - No big deal.

I don't know the Eheim 1260 pump - I'm sure its very good. I run odyssea pumps which have very similar specs but considerably lower price tags. An odyssea wp700 gives you 10' of head height and 735 gph with same power draw as the Eheim. The difference is the odysesea costs about $36. Ther're very good pumps, quiet and powerful - made in china - I know what your probably thinking on this - you get what you pay for - but trust me - save the $100+ and put it some place else. I am totally comfortable recommending the odyssea pump.

If you already have the 40 gallon long as a sump - use it, but if there is any way to change it for a 40 gallon breeder - I think you would be much happier. The problem with the long is that its only 12" from front to back. That's too narrow for my liking. It limits your choices in skimmers and makes getting a skimmer in and out much harder. The breeder is shorter (36") but is 18" inches front to back which makes getting stuff in and out much, much easier. Seriously - trade it if you can.

If you get the breeder, then I would recommend taking the $100+ you save on the pump and consider upgrading the skimmer. For fish the Vertex IN-180 is fine, but if you move to corals, I think you'll find it under powered and will end up replacing it. Spending money twice for the same equipment is never a good thing. The Vertex is rated for a tank 100-180 gallons. Spend a little more and get something bigger. I run the NAC-9 which is rated for 395+ gallons and costs about $100 more. Bigger cup, more air, more flow - I think you'd be much happier in the long run. It would fit (barely) in the 40 long but it would be a super tight fit.

The UV isn't really necessary - I ran a 36 W unit for a while and honestly it doesn't really accomplish much. Save your money on this one.

All rock becomes live rock after a month or so in your tank. The advantage of dry rock is that you're not going to get any unwanted hitchikers. The disadvantage is that some of the stuff sold is loaded with phosphates and will fuel algae growth for several months. You really don't need too much to start. Get enough at first to give your fish some cover, but I like to add rock as I add corals. Load up on rock now and you may find yourself taking rock out as you populate your tank. I'm not a fan of the BRS rock - I've got about 100 lbs of the stuff in a shed outside - it leeches way too long for me.

As for substrate - bare bottom is easiest but If you must - go with Aragonite. Do not get oolitic sand. Do not get crushed shell. Do not go with a deep sand bed. Not on a first tank. (not on any tank IMHO) If you want a deep sand bed - run it remotely.

A quarantine tank is one of those things that you'll figure out you really need after you flush a few $100 fish down the toilet. You'll have an ich outbreak (or worse) sooner or later. Once you have the fish you want you can tear down your quarantine, but while your actively stocking - It will save you money to have one. I still add a fish from time to time...I have a very good LFS who medicate all their tanks and make heavy use of copper and will let me buy a fish and watch it in their tanks for a couple of weeks...it could work...

my two cents..

 

[TaylorLee]

Hi TaylorLee,

I also run a 120.

I don't know if this is your first saltwater tank or not, but going fish only to start is a good idea. Since you eventually plan on keeping some corals, keep that in mine as you make your initial fish selections.

What you have put together so far is pretty good. An overflow box will work fine. 600-800 gallons per hour is just enough for that size tank - 1200 might be better but what you have will work fine. just keep the PVC runs short and straight from the overflow to the sump. Matching the flow rate for the return pump with the overflow box is also correct. If you could drill the tank, now would be the time to do it, but if not - No big deal.

I don't know the Eheim 1260 pump - I'm sure its very good. I run odyssea pumps which have very similar specs but considerably lower price tags. An odyssea wp700 gives you 10' of head height and 735 gph with same power draw as the Eheim. The difference is the odysesea costs about $36. Ther're very good pumps, quiet and powerful - made in china - I know what your probably thinking on this - you get what you pay for - but trust me - save the $100+ and put it some place else. I am totally comfortable recommending the odyssea pump.

If you already have the 40 gallon long as a sump - use it, but if there is any way to change it for a 40 gallon breeder - I think you would be much happier. The problem with the long is that its only 12" from front to back. That's too narrow for my liking. It limits your choices in skimmers and makes getting a skimmer in and out much harder. The breeder is shorter (36") but is 18" inches front to back which makes getting stuff in and out much, much easier. Seriously - trade it if you can.

If you get the breeder, then I would recommend taking the $100+ you save on the pump and consider upgrading the skimmer. For fish the Vertex IN-180 is fine, but if you move to corals, I think you'll find it under powered and will end up replacing it. Spending money twice for the same equipment is never a good thing. The Vertex is rated for a tank 100-180 gallons. Spend a little more and get something bigger. I run the NAC-9 which is rated for 395+ gallons and costs about $100 more. Bigger cup, more air, more flow - I think you'd be much happier in the long run. It would fit (barely) in the 40 long but it would be a super tight fit.

The UV isn't really necessary - I ran a 36 W unit for a while and honestly it doesn't really accomplish much. Save your money on this one.

All rock becomes live rock after a month or so in your tank. The advantage of dry rock is that you're not going to get any unwanted hitchikers. The disadvantage is that some of the stuff sold is loaded with phosphates and will fuel algae growth for several months. You really don't need too much to start. Get enough at first to give your fish some cover, but I like to add rock as I add corals. Load up on rock now and you may find yourself taking rock out as you populate your tank. I'm not a fan of the BRS rock - I've got about 100 lbs of the stuff in a shed outside - it leeches way too long for me.

As for substrate - bare bottom is easiest but If you must - go with Aragonite. Do not get oolitic sand. Do not get crushed shell. Do not go with a deep sand bed. Not on a first tank. (not on any tank IMHO) If you want a deep sand bed - run it remotely.

A quarantine tank is one of those things that you'll figure out you really need after you flush a few $100 fish down the toilet. You'll have an ich outbreak (or worse) sooner or later. Once you have the fish you want you can tear down your quarantine, but while your actively stocking - It will save you money to have one. I still add a fish from time to time...I have a very good LFS who medicate all their tanks and make heavy use of copper and will let me buy a fish and watch it in their tanks for a couple of weeks...it could work...

my two cents..

Thanks very much for your revising of my setup! But im unsure why you're against DSB's? And why not oolitic aragonite sand?

 

[TaylorLee]

Also what is BRS rock? could you recomend some affordable rock and suppliers i could possibly order the dry rock from as well?

 

[robert]

Oolitic sand is dirty - its a precipitated sand and is loaded with phosphate, copper and silicates. If it starts to break down (pH drop - especially in a DSB) and the sand bed is disturbed - death.

I'm not against deep sand beds. I'm against deep sand beds in the display. Keep it remote, so that in the event you lose a pump, or the power goes out - the anaerobic zone doesn't explode and wipe out your set-up. In my set-ups, I keep the aerobic and anaerobic separated as much as possible. I can do whatever I want to the main display (add/remove sand - whatever) without worrying about poisoning my tank. I actually push all my return water up through the sand bed to keep it clean and highly oxygenated. I keep a separate 7 gallon aerobic zone which does all my denitrification/phosphate removal. (I have a 120g display/45g frag/20gal sump)

BRS = bulk reef supply. Good place to order stuff, but I won't recommend their rock. I've got a bunch - I won't use it. Every time I add a piece I get weeks (months) of algae bloom. Adding rock is always a pain - I prefer clean hard dead - dense coral stone - its not cheap. Get only what you need. Don't take your rock-work up too high - you'll put corals on it and you need room for them to grow. Whatever you do, don't buy on cost alone. - its not worth the aggravation.

 

[scapone]

Brs= bulk reef supply I got my rock from there. Its cheaper than buying live rock and can be made "live" buy adding only a few pounds of established rock. +1 to poster above dsb = pain in the a. It gets clumpy, holds wastes, can potentially become a nutrient factory as well as make your water forever cloudy. How do I know im slowly little by little getting rid of mine.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[robert]

"I keep a separate 7 gallon aerobic zone which does all my denitrification/phosphate removal. (I have a 120g display/45g frag/20gal sump)"

Meant to say -> "I keep a separate 7 gallon anerobic zone which does all my denitrification/phosphate removal. (I have a 120g display/45g frag/20gal sump)"

 

[TaylorLee]

An anerobic zone, is that what is know as the "refugium" stage In a sump? Thanks for the input as well on the LR as well.

 

[TaylorLee]

"I keep a separate 7 gallon aerobic zone which does all my denitrification/phosphate removal. (I have a 120g display/45g frag/20gal sump)"

Meant to say -> "I keep a separate 7 gallon anerobic zone which does all my denitrification/phosphate removal. (I have a 120g display/45g frag/20gal sump)"

Anerobic meaning the refugium stage? Im not really good with what all is happening inside a saltwater tank because this is in fact my first 1 i have ever attempted or even started to attempt. So all of these Scientific names i am lost. I guess you'll have to "Dumb" it up for me so to speak seeing as how im an inexperienced SW Aquarist

 

[robert]

Anerobic meaning oxygen starved. A deep sand bed is anerobic. The microbes in these areas are responsible for completing the nitrogen cycle - eating up the accumulated nitrate and liberating nitrogen gas.
These areas can also build up toxins like hydrogen sulphide which is why they don't belong with your critters. Not in the display.

Pump water over to a seperate anerobic container, let the bacteria do their work, and pump the clean water back. It doesn't take much flow or a big volume to complete the anerobic portion of the nitrogen cycle. This way, should the power fail or a pump go out - these anerobic areas can't expand back into the display.

 

[TaylorLee]

Ahh ok. So what would be the depth suitable for it not to be a dsb? i was thinking 2-2 1/2"s

 

[robert]

Depends on what you want to keep and the size of the sand - some fish borrow.
I think 2 inches should be plenty. I keep less.

 

[TaylorLee]

Oh alrighty! Thanks for the help! What are your thoughts on the rlss protien skimmer rated for a 300 gallon tank?

 

[TaylorLee]

rlss r8-u model. but whats the difference between the r8-u and the r8-i model?

 

[robert]

Don't know anything about them, but did check them out just now. They look pretty cool actually.
The R8-u has a bigger foot-print (universal body) and the pump is external to the body.
The R8-i has a smaller footprint with the pump located inside the body.

Comparison points I look at is the air draw and wattage - and the specs look quite nice.
The NAC-9 is 1020 lph while this one is variable at 900-1800 lph
Wattage for the NAC-9 is 25W - this one is up to 40.

I'm not really sure how much the controller is worth in practice. I generally don't fool with the skimmer too much after I get it tuned which is easy enough, Sometimes though, like after a chemi-clean treatment, it could be nice to be able to tune the skimmer down - and the 10 minute pause is kinda trick.

Looks pretty good - I probably wouldn't pay the difference unless it has a stellar rep. I'd be a little leery of the DC motor/controller - it might limit your replacement options or lock you into expensive replacement parts. I'm sure you could run other pumps on the skimmer, especially the "U" model, but if you did then you paid the premium and would lose the controler. Just stuff to consider.