What caused your dino problem?
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Royce White
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I believe it to be low nutrients also.
I have been in the hobby a very long time so timeline might be a little off, I just do not remember anymore exact timeline.. I never had dinos till I would say about the mid 90's or so, I started the reef hobby mid upper 80's. when I started in the hobby we grew caulerpa in the reefs to help with nutrients.
Everyone in the area I lived had Dinos and the fish stores, those who did not had other algae issues. I had them really bad and was working with John Tullock and Bob Goemens. I was also on fishnet and worked a little with Julian Sprung, he even put some of it in a book. Some of the methods used now a days came from that.. Anyway they did not appear till I added my first venturi skimmer and phosphate removing compounds. Well the the consensus at the time was needed to choke them with lower nutrients.. So more water changes, added di more phosphate removing compounds etc. Well they just kept getting worse and worse. I was actually getting everything for free from a LFS who had them really bad so it didnt cost me anything.
I then setup a bunch of brood stock tanks to breed clowns and in these tanks I grew caulerpa to help with nutrients because I fed them heavy. These tanks never developed dinos so I started to think why is this? then it hit me higher nutrients allowed the algae to out compete dinos. Plus it was reinforced by two things, I never had them with caulerpa growing in my reef and everyone who did not have them had other algae issues. So I added a fuge with caulerpa and they went away in weeks. Amazing.. Then I never had to deal with them for a long time till dead rock came along.
Well later on I set up a all in one reef because of work and my company and I was just to busy for a full reef. This tank was set up with dead rock and no issues. That tank was fine with no fuge but I really was not keeping nutrient real low. Well I went to set up a larger tank after I moved that my girlfriend bought me. I set this up with dead rock and I had cycled it like the last dead rock I had no issue with, I also gave the rock a bleach and vinegar bath. OMG this had dinos for 6 months from phosphate leaching from the rock. I finally pulled the rock and went with live rock and no issues. I did not use a fuge but did not strive for super low nutrients.
I did have another out break on another tank with dead rock..
I have wrote several super long post in the past on fighting dinos and was asked to do a book once.
The conclusion is not striving for super low nutrient and adding algae to compete is the way to go to rid dinos. Now you still want low nutrient but just enough to have green algae grow.. It has never failed me.
Since it was a problem mainly in my area at the time we also concluded it was something in the water possibly to much iron.. I had suggested people try a metal removing media and some have had success with this too..
I also think it is such a problem now a days because of dead rock having so much bound stuff like metals and phosphate. I just think it takes allot of time for some of this rock to unbind all of this garbage and build up some biodiversity to compete with dino's. This rock is causing cyano and dino issues. On the other side those that buy good equipment that is so efficient we are getting lower nutrients and dinos can compete better for what ever it needs at these levels.
I will say blackouts do not work.. Like allot of algae it can leave spores and creep up again when conditions are right.
All I can say is I have not had a dino problem other than cycling and using dead rock in like 20 years.
Everyone in the area I lived had Dinos and the fish stores, those who did not had other algae issues. I had them really bad and was working with John Tullock and Bob Goemens. I was also on fishnet and worked a little with Julian Sprung, he even put some of it in a book. Some of the methods used now a days came from that.. Anyway they did not appear till I added my first venturi skimmer and phosphate removing compounds. Well the the consensus at the time was needed to choke them with lower nutrients.. So more water changes, added di more phosphate removing compounds etc. Well they just kept getting worse and worse. I was actually getting everything for free from a LFS who had them really bad so it didnt cost me anything.
I then setup a bunch of brood stock tanks to breed clowns and in these tanks I grew caulerpa to help with nutrients because I fed them heavy. These tanks never developed dinos so I started to think why is this? then it hit me higher nutrients allowed the algae to out compete dinos. Plus it was reinforced by two things, I never had them with caulerpa growing in my reef and everyone who did not have them had other algae issues. So I added a fuge with caulerpa and they went away in weeks. Amazing.. Then I never had to deal with them for a long time till dead rock came along.
Well later on I set up a all in one reef because of work and my company and I was just to busy for a full reef. This tank was set up with dead rock and no issues. That tank was fine with no fuge but I really was not keeping nutrient real low. Well I went to set up a larger tank after I moved that my girlfriend bought me. I set this up with dead rock and I had cycled it like the last dead rock I had no issue with, I also gave the rock a bleach and vinegar bath. OMG this had dinos for 6 months from phosphate leaching from the rock. I finally pulled the rock and went with live rock and no issues. I did not use a fuge but did not strive for super low nutrients.
I did have another out break on another tank with dead rock..
I have wrote several super long post in the past on fighting dinos and was asked to do a book once.
The conclusion is not striving for super low nutrient and adding algae to compete is the way to go to rid dinos. Now you still want low nutrient but just enough to have green algae grow.. It has never failed me.
Since it was a problem mainly in my area at the time we also concluded it was something in the water possibly to much iron.. I had suggested people try a metal removing media and some have had success with this too..
I also think it is such a problem now a days because of dead rock having so much bound stuff like metals and phosphate. I just think it takes allot of time for some of this rock to unbind all of this garbage and build up some biodiversity to compete with dino's. This rock is causing cyano and dino issues. On the other side those that buy good equipment that is so efficient we are getting lower nutrients and dinos can compete better for what ever it needs at these levels.
I will say blackouts do not work.. Like allot of algae it can leave spores and creep up again when conditions are right.
All I can say is I have not had a dino problem other than cycling and using dead rock in like 20 years.
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bubbaque
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Back when I had dinos, this is how mine came about. I had low nutrients so I wanted to dose aminos. After about a week of dosing I got dino.
Randy Holmes-Farley
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That result begs the question, was it the aminos feeding dino’s, or the added N and not P driving down phosphate. [emoji3]
Amino Acid products definitely have their place, and I do use them but very sparingly.
In separate tanks over the years when I was too liberal with dosing amino acids Dino made an appearance. Once I start to see the very beginnings of dino I either stop dosing or cut even farther back. Whether the dino was present and amino acids just provided fuel I can not say definitively.
Halal Hotdog
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The ironic thing is if 15 years ago you said nutrients in your reef were too low you would be laughed at. Definitely we understand a lot more about controlling different parameters today than we did back than.
Well I have said raising nutrients can help but I do not think it is the case with some of people.. I think raising nutrients can actually hurt some people. The only reason some are seeing low nutrients is the Dino's are growing so fast they are using up nitrate and phosphate and adding more nutrients can sometimes make things worse. But low nutrients certainly provides the condition for dino's to rear its ugly head. This makes it hard to determine if it is low or high nutrient since in both case it can lead to dino's.
I also think one of the reason we are seeing it so much lately is a nutrient issue for the dead rock not being fully cycled. mined dead rock can have so many things like fertilizer in them, dead animals and who knows what else. Plus there is no algae, coralline algae or bacteria to compete with dinos. So dead rock is the perfect breeding ground for dinos and cyano which is supper abundant.
I think adding a algae via a fuge is the way to go.. I also think maybe algae scrubber might work I just never tried one. I have not had to fight dionos in like forever except cycling dead rock..
Halal Hotdog
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Definitely agree with you, and I have triggered some dinos myself my reducing nitrates to undetectable numbers. Back in the day wet/dry filters with bio-balls were the craze. They helped with ammonia but became nitrate factories. Now with carbon dosing and ATS, it is very possible to get nitrates to undetectable numbers with very little effort. Didn't realize how effective carbon dosing was until my corals started showing signs of stress.
Deezill
Valuable Member
I can tell you when I was new to the hobby and had a 125g with my canister filter Fluval fx6 I had very high nitrates like 40ppm.
i dont know what my phosphates were because I did not do anything to lower them because i did not know how vital it was to control them.
I do know my canister filter was a nitrate factory but I never had dinos. I also did not keep many coral. I also had some green algae that I was scrapping off the glass when I would perform maintenance. Now I have no green algae but I had dinos. I found out that I was using waaaaaay to much GFO in my dual reactor from BRS. I doubled the recommended amount of GFO that BRS recommend. I turned off my reactor running GAC and GFO and I started dosing H2O2 along with Vibrant and now my dinos have gone away. It seems like I am winning the war. i can also confirm that a blackout did not work for me as I did a week. I am lucky the few coral I had did not die. but now instead of feeding my fish every other day I feed twice a day. i am increasing my bio load because I have very good filtration but I don't have enough of a bioload so i currently have 5 fish in QT. 4 1 inch lyretail and a PBT. My tank is look beautiful again and my sand it once more pretty. I will keep you guys posted. I think I deserve some more coral to fill up my 165 pounds of rocks I have lol.
i dont know what my phosphates were because I did not do anything to lower them because i did not know how vital it was to control them.
I do know my canister filter was a nitrate factory but I never had dinos. I also did not keep many coral. I also had some green algae that I was scrapping off the glass when I would perform maintenance. Now I have no green algae but I had dinos. I found out that I was using waaaaaay to much GFO in my dual reactor from BRS. I doubled the recommended amount of GFO that BRS recommend. I turned off my reactor running GAC and GFO and I started dosing H2O2 along with Vibrant and now my dinos have gone away. It seems like I am winning the war. i can also confirm that a blackout did not work for me as I did a week. I am lucky the few coral I had did not die. but now instead of feeding my fish every other day I feed twice a day. i am increasing my bio load because I have very good filtration but I don't have enough of a bioload so i currently have 5 fish in QT. 4 1 inch lyretail and a PBT. My tank is look beautiful again and my sand it once more pretty. I will keep you guys posted. I think I deserve some more coral to fill up my 165 pounds of rocks I have lol.
Oberst Oswald
Active Member
Went away for Thanksgiving with family for 4 days without nobody to feed the tank. Some brown stuff on sand and rocks but really didn't know what it was. Had to go away again for 3 days with my son feeding the tank. Came back home to see an overflowing skimmer and the nastiest tank you could imagine. Went to a LFS and they said it was red slime and sold me Red Slime Remover. Did nothing and made the tank worse. Went to 2 other LFS... 3 day blackout from one and the other water changes. Nope. By this time I have lost about 75% of my corals (mixed tank all SPS dead), 2 fish, shrimp, all snails, and was ready to give up and, get this, give my whole setup (top of the line stuff ) free to a good home. I just wanted to get rid of the headache and go back to enjoying life. Started to read the 1000 post thread and decided not to quit without one more try. Went ape and raised my NO3 & PO4 way to high. Hair algae everywhere... killed some zoas and LPS. Bought a good microscope with camera, posted picture on thread and had free swimming dinos. Dino's were kicking my butt. Bought a big and expensive UV unit and 10mm socks. That got rid of the toxic free swimming dinos fairly fast. Still fighting the type that live in the sand but they are not toxic and are sort of under control. Sent Triton sample, got water back in spec, and bought some LPS about 2 months ago to restock the tank. Tank looking good and now ready to take a chance. Friday 5 "easy type" SPS corals are coming to put on the rocks which are clear of dinos. So I hope by restocking the tank fully it will help to out compete the remaining dinos while I vacuum sand and supercharging the 'frug with plants, pods & Kessil H380 light. Thanking you all on the R2R forum for your time and advice.
I got two outbreaks, one was easy to control get rid of the dinos, it was when I got really low nutrients. The other one was really tough to get rid of the dinos because it happened when I accidentally overdosed VSV and the only solution I found was to use Metroplex.
