What does your water change regimen look like?

[Literallyhydro]

I have a moderate/heavily stocked reef tank. My nitrates are seemingly always attempting to creep up. I've tried sulfur, that ultimately didn't work. So I tried Bio-pellets and because I attempted to use a modified phosban reactor, that likely didn't work either.

So as of today, my nitrates are hovering around 25. My LFS (Who happens to sponsor this forum, I will point any fingers at this time) tells me that anything under 30 is alright for SPS, including Acropora, with 5-20 being considered ideal.

During that period, I attempted to do water changes every 2-4 weeks of 25-30% of the system volume. The LFS recommends I do 10% weekly. I just can't see this being enough to bring the nitrates down.. Maybe if I do 25-30% weekly water changes until the nitrates are down to manageable levels, then maintain it with good husbandry and consistent water change schedule?

I also am eyeing Nopox to try to help control nitrates.

So a few questions as a result..

1) Do you think a large skimmer, weekly 10% water changes, and carbon dosing would be enough to manage phosphate and nitrate?

2) What does your water change schedule look like? And what kind of nutrient export equipment do you run?

3) Is my LFS wrong to tell me that nitrates up to 30 is ok for Acropora? Would they be likely to brown out? This is a very reputable shop here and elsewhere.

4) Should I even be worried about my nitrates? They never climb above 25, but I can't seem to get them to drop lower. It's just that this is a 150G system, which means for me to do a lot of large water changes to bring the nitrate down, and maintain it there.. I'd go through quite a lot of salt, very quickly.

Edit: Forgot to mention! The Acros that I do have right now are colored up nicely (In my opinion) polyps always extended and they are growing.

 

[10Seconds]

1. Yes
2. 40 gal once per month on 260 gal. I run my skimmer 24/7 and dose vodka also.
3. 30 seems way high. I wouldnt risk it.
4. Yes. Try GFO?

 

[JCM]

1. Can't answer as I'm not familiar enough with your tank. Carbon dosing will have a much greater impact on nitrates compared to phosphates though.

2. I change 5g a week on my 45g tank. Most would consider it heavily stocked I suppose. I don't have any nutrient export equipment at this time.

3. Nitrates of 30 are not ideal for sps but I doubt it would kill them. My nitrates are between 10 and 25, hard to tell color difference on my test. Acro's do ok though it's not an sps tank.

4. If you're happy with how things look I wouldn't go changing your whole system up.

 

[Denisk]

I to am a sps domainated Reef.

1. That’s a tough question to answer. Need additional tank info. It really depends on how you feed. I have reefer 350 with 10 fish and I run just a curve 5 skimmer. I always am at No3 5ppm and po4 at .03ppm. But my feeding is strict. A pinch of flake food in the morning and a tiny sheet of Nori every night.

2. I do a 5 gallon water change a week but only to replenish trace elements as I don’t dose anything other than two part.

3. I wouldn’t focus on nitrates at 30ppm being wrong rather focus on keeping it stable. But personally I keep them lower as I have success with lower parameters. However some have success with higher.

4. Nitrates aren’t easy to drop unless you do huge water change and skim heavier.

Best of luck!

 

[Literallyhydro]

Thank you for the input guys.

I'm going to try 20% weekly, feeding very lightly and skim as heavily as the skimmer will allow without overflowing.

I usually deal with Phosphates through some GFO in a media bag (I really need to get around to getting a reactor..) and I manage to keep it at <0.03ppm.

My understanding of carbon dosing is that the bacteria also needs to consume phosphate for nitrate to drop as well. If I'm correct, does that mean I should discontinue use of GFO when I start carbon dosing?

 

[brandon429]

In my opinion, none of those nitrate offsets should be ran if you have a sandbed that can cloud if you reached in and grabbed sand and dropped it

We should reverse that, then no offsets needed unless the bioloading and or feed is high and the water change and or skimming volume is too low, or if by design those adsorbents are used to reduce tank work (a handy use for them)

When someone is forced to use them to keep a given nutrient param low, Its handy to make sure a sandbed isn't causing that.

If this is a bare bottom tank the nitrates can't hide and leak like they do from a typical cloudy sandbed. A cloudy sandbed exists in 95% of tanks using pellets, carbon and gfo, my contrived stats lol based on thread trends imo

I found for my own reef that in keeping a clean sandbed and doing good volume water changes I never needed testing nitrate and phosphate. Other more complex designs might, but I at least wanted to see if the floors are kept clean here.

 

[Denisk]

Thank you for the input guys.

I'm going to try 20% weekly, feeding very lightly and skim as heavily as the skimmer will allow without overflowing.

I usually deal with Phosphates through some GFO in a media bag (I really need to get around to getting a reactor..) and I manage to keep it at <0.03ppm.

My understanding of carbon dosing is that the bacteria also needs to consume phosphate for nitrate to drop as well. If I'm correct, does that mean I should discontinue use of GFO when I start carbon dosing?

Can I ask you what is making you want to chase all these numbers? The reason I ask is because I see a lot of people who try to add a ton of equipment and then life happens and falls behind on the maintenance and the stability of the parameters goes all over the place causing more issues then originally starting with. (Not saying you’re one of these people but it happens all the time haha)

Sometimes even a refugium can make a huge difference. But at the same time I have seen extremely successful tanks run with high nitrates.

Either way. Good luck!

 

[Literallyhydro]

Can I ask you what is making you want to chase all these numbers? The reason I ask is because I see a lot of people who try to add a ton of equipment and then life happens and falls behind on the maintenance and the stability of the parameters goes all over the place causing more issues then originally starting with. (Not saying you’re one of these people but it happens all the time haha)

Sometimes even a refugium can make a huge difference. But at the same time I have seen extremely successful tanks run with high nitrates.

Either way. Good luck!

I've tried to do acropora in the past in this system, and they often would STN or RTN within a few weeks of being in the system. Now I want to get the numbers where they should be and maintain them there.

However, I also changed my LFS to one which aquacultures everything in the shop and the acros from there are looking much better.

Maybe it was the coral from the other store, but they also had seemingly beautiful pieces too.

Maybe it is wrong of me to go about it the way I am. You're right, I've seen quite a few successful reefs with elevated nutrients; some of which have nice color and polyp extension too.


Should i look into starting up a refugium? I can add a few additional baffles and run a 20x12 or 24x12 refugium. I tried to run one in the past using the clamp lights from home depot, but the algae never grew so I gave up on that. Should I try a better light?

 

[Denisk]

I've tried to do acropora in the past in this system, and they often would STN or RTN within a few weeks of being in the system. Now I want to get the numbers where they should be and maintain them there.

However, I also changed my LFS to one which aquacultures everything in the shop and the acros from there are looking much better.

Maybe it was the coral from the other store, but they also had seemingly beautiful pieces too.

Maybe it is wrong of me to go about it the way I am. You're right, I've seen quite a few successful reefs with elevated nutrients; some of which have nice color and polyp extension too.

If they stn’d within a few weeks. I would think it was more of stability issue. It would be better if you post all your tank info/parameters. That could be helpful to all of us so we can help you. Rather you asking us what everyone does. We try to see how we can help you. I can assure you everyone’s tank is running differently so trying to run like someone else is already going to cause you issues.

Also whenever I have people ask about starting with sps. I always recommend them to start with one and something super hardy like a Monti cap or birdsnest.

 

[Literallyhydro]

If they stn’d within a few weeks. I would think it was more of stability issue. It would be better if you post all your tank info/parameters. That could be helpful to all of us.

Also whenever I have people ask about starting with sps. I always recommend them to start with one and something super hardy like a Monti cap or birdsnest.

I have Monti caps I've grown from quarter size to about 8 inches across in 6 months. Birdsnest are doing good, green slimer, frogskin tort, pocillapora, those are all doing well in my tank.

My full parameters right now:

pH 8.2 lowest I've seen is 7.8 at night
Ammonia 0 tested with API
Nitrite 0 tested with API
Nitrate 25ish PPM tested with salifert
Phosphate 0.03 PPM tested with Hanna checker
Calcium 450 PPM tested with salifert
Alkalinity 8.0 PPM tested with Hanna checker
Magnesium 1400 PPM tested at LFS using salifert, test kit at home expired so I need to replace it.

At the time I was losing acros, the alkalinity would some days be 7, others it would test 9 etc so Its very possible it was a major Alk swing. Right now I'm tightening down the Alk swing every day, now it's staying completely in the 8s and I'm trying to get it tighter than that.

I was using kalkwasser but it was being highly unstable, likely due to fluctuating evaporation. Now I'm using a dosing pump with 2 part.

I now have a Terra red acro, some kind of Millepora (profile picture) blue lightning acro, destiny acro all of which seem to be doing good. Only one with little polyp extension is the destiny acro, but it doesn't look like a variety that has a lot of polyp extension anyway.

 

[Denisk]

I have Monti caps I've grown from quarter size to about 8 inches across in 6 months. Birdsnest are doing good, green slimer, frogskin tort, pocillapora, those are all doing well in my tank.

My full parameters right now:

pH 8.2 lowest I've seen is 7.8 at night
Ammonia 0 tested with API
Nitrite 0 tested with API
Nitrate 25ish PPM tested with salifert
Phosphate 0.03 PPM tested with Hanna checker
Calcium 450 PPM tested with salifert
Alkalinity 8.0 PPM tested with Hanna checker
Magnesium 1400 PPM tested at LFS using salifert, test kit at home expired so I need to replace it.

At the time I was losing acros, the alkalinity would some days be 7, others it would test 9 etc so Its very possible it was a major Alk swing. Right now I'm tightening down the Alk swing every day, now it's staying completely in the 8s and I'm trying to get it tighter than that.

I was using kalkwasser but it was being highly unstable, likely due to fluctuating evaporation. Now I'm using a dosing pump with 2 part.

I now have a Terra red acro, some kind of Millepora (profile picture) blue lightning acro, destiny acro all of which seem to be doing good. Only one with little polyp extension is the destiny acro, but it doesn't look like a variety that has a lot of polyp extension anyway.

Got it. I wasn’t sure if it was sps or acro in particular. Now the alk swing is making a lot more sense. The most alk swing I have is maybe .4 dkh but 2 dkh is a lot and needs to be addressed.

I wouldn’t trust api for test kits all though it seems odd that salifret test is showing 25ppm. Usually if my Red Sea No3 test kit showed something so would my api. So maybe it’s worth trying another test kit. I like the Red Sea one personally. I heard good things about the nyos one too.

Once you dial down your consumption with your two part and it’s stable. I would try with another acro again.

 

[Rick Krejci]

1) Should be fine

2) Change it only when I think it's warranted. I have a very heavy stocked 250l tank been going for 6 months, feed heavily, solid skimmer 24/7 and use chaeto with kessil h380 in the sump, sockless. Nitrates and Phosphates are usually just above 0. No carbon dosing or GFO.

3) 30 would be a bit high unless it's a mature system and the corals have been raised in it in the long term.

4) Water changes aren't a great long term reduction method unless you're changing major amounts weekly. Having tried various methods, I'm a believer in macroalgae with high quality light. It's quite low maintenance and self-regulating, keeps some nutrients in the water, reducing the chances of crashing Nitrates and/or Phosphates to zero, causing other issues like Dinos and Cyano. And can handle a nutrient influx event (dying snail or fish) to keep things stable.

"Edit: Forgot to mention! The Acros that I do have right now are colored up nicely (In my opinion) polyps always extended and they are growing."
Great. Don't worry about the numbers, let your tank guide your actions. Stability is more important than numbers. Numbers are a good long term indicator that something needs to be adjusted (like alk dose) and are good diagnostic tools.

 

[JCM]

Thank you for the input guys.

I'm going to try 20% weekly, feeding very lightly and skim as heavily as the skimmer will allow without overflowing.

I usually deal with Phosphates through some GFO in a media bag (I really need to get around to getting a reactor..) and I manage to keep it at <0.03ppm.

My understanding of carbon dosing is that the bacteria also needs to consume phosphate for nitrate to drop as well. If I'm correct, does that mean I should discontinue use of GFO when I start carbon dosing?

Yes, the bacteria will also consume phosphate, but not nearly as much as nitrate in my experience. If your phosphates are that low, I would stop the GFO personally.

I also agree with Dennis. Keeping them consistent is way more important than keeping them at a specific number. 25 is better than bouncing between 2 and 15 all the time.

 

[Literallyhydro]

Yes, the bacteria will also consume phosphate, but not nearly as much as nitrate in my experience. If your phosphates are that low, I would stop the GFO personally.

I also agree with Dennis. Keeping them consistent is way more important than keeping them at a specific number. 25 is better than bouncing between 2 and 15 all the time.

So what I'll do is take the GFO out of the sump, and give the 10% weekly water changes and carbon dosing a try.

If my nitrates start to climb higher than 25 I'll reduce feeding or up the water changes. In theory though, shouldn't the carbon dosing make a dent in nitrates? How long should it take before Nopox begin to show changes on the test kit?

Something else i wonder about, is it feasible to do both Nopox and a refugium? I have almost a two foot space in my sump not being used at all, I just need to install a few baffles and buy a light.

Or should I go straight for the fuge and pass on the Nopox? I'm open to recommendations for a relatively stable means of maintaining lower nutrients.

After tightening the Alk swings (still improving it daily though) the current batch of acropora seem to be doing great, so I understand that my nitrates may not even be a problem necessarily, but I still feel it's borderline or preventing them from showing their best colors.

 

[JCM]

So what I'll do is take the GFO out of the sump, and give the 10% weekly water changes and carbon dosing a try.

If my nitrates start to climb higher than 25 I'll reduce feeding or up the water changes. In theory though, shouldn't the carbon dosing make a dent in nitrates? How long should it take before Nopox begin to show changes on the test kit?

Something else i wonder about, is it feasible to do both Nopox and a refugium? I have almost a two foot space in my sump not being used at all, I just need to install a few baffles and buy a light.

Or should I go straight for the fuge and pass on the Nopox? I'm open to recommendations for a relatively stable means of maintaining lower nutrients.

After tightening the Alk swings (still improving it daily though) the current batch of acropora seem to be doing great, so I understand that my nitrates may not even be a problem necessarily, but I still feel it's borderline or preventing them from showing their best colors.

Assuming you have a nicely functioning skimmer, the carbon dosing will absolutely make a dent in nitrates. I have no experience with nopox, I used to dose vodka as I recall it took a couple of weeks to start reducing nitrates.

I'm probably not the best person to give advice on an sps tank, my tank is mostly zoas and lps. But a refugium would be beneficial if you can successfully grow macro algae, that will definitely help reduce nutrients in the tank.

I'd say try one or the other and see how it goes, if you'e still not content add the other. If it were me, I'd leave everything alone considering you're happy with the coral health as is.

 

[Literallyhydro]

Assuming you have a nicely functioning skimmer, the carbon dosing will absolutely make a dent in nitrates. I have no experience with nopox, I used to dose vodka as I recall it took a couple of weeks to start reducing nitrates.

I'm probably not the best person to give advice on an sps tank, my tank is mostly zoas and lps. But a refugium would be beneficial if you can successfully grow macro algae, that will definitely help reduce nutrients in the tank.

I'd say try one or the other and see how it goes, if you'e still not content add the other. If it were me, I'd leave everything alone considering you're happy with the coral health as is.

I like the idea of running a refugium so I'm absolutely ready to give it a shot again. Any recommendations for a good inexpensive light? I like the kessil but it's way out of my budget. It needs to be able to cover as far as 24 inches or inexpensive enough to buy more than one.

 

[Newb73]

1.4% per day give or take.

 

[Literallyhydro]

1.4% per day give or take.

Is that 1.4% daily working better for you than weekly? I imagine all the numbers would be more stable with consistent, small water changes.

 

[Newb73]

Is that 1.4% daily working better for you than weekly? I imagine all the numbers would be more stable with consistent, small water changes.

Yes. I don't really have to worry as much about matching tank parameters perfectly, i don't even have to keep the heater in my mixing vat on. I just mix up 40g to 35ppt and it runs about 2 weeks.

Bonus, i almost always have some aged water om hand for things like dips, hospital, QT if i wanted or a tank emergency that would benifit from a sudden large water change.

 

[Sea MunnKey]

Started doing 1 gallon water change daily as per Randy Homes Farley method (I haven't purchase the Dual Pump ... yet) and am on auto dosing Ca, Alk & Mag. Don't check water parameters, just daily view on corals and see if they're all smiling and happy! All's well ...