What is Consuming My Nitrates?

[nickkohrn]

I recently tore down my frag tank due to dinoflagellates that I could not beat. I was unable to maintain detectable levels of nitrates and phosphates. I decided to put my fish into a quarantine tank and add a HOB filter with a sponge, PVC, heater, and Fritz Turbostart 900. I have not had any detectable ammonia.

Then, I added a new MarinePure plate, a ~8" piece of live rock from a local shop, a heater, and a pump to a holding container so that I could seed the MarinePure plate that will be going into my upcoming Waterbox. I added some Fritz Turbostart 900 to that as well. I dosed some Dr Tim's ammonium chloride to reach ~2ppm. I tested over the next two days and there was a spike in ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. However, after testing today, which is the third day, ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates are all undetectable. The tote is black, and there is a lid blocking light from getting into it. I added another dose of ammonia today.

I don't want to battle dinoflagellates in my upcoming build, so I am trying to reach and maintain detectable levels of nitrates and phosphates by adding ammonium chloride to feed the bacteria. However, I am unable to detect nitrates today, even without any methods of exportation. I haven't performed any water-changes. I haven't added any other chemicals or media.

What could be causing the nitrates to return to an undetectable level after being detectable?

 

[iTzJu]

the bacteria you are adding/already existing are consuming your nitrates.

since there is nothing in the holding container providing constant supply of nitrates - the bacteria will quickly make work out of it.

 

[nickkohrn]

the bacteria you are adding/already existing are consuming your nitrates.

since there is nothing in the holding container providing constant supply of nitrates - the bacteria will quickly make work out of it.

I didn't think that the bacteria would consume the nitrates. I understood the bacteria would consume ammonia and nitrites, but I thought that the exportation of nitrates had to be done through other processes, such as water-changes and photosynthesis.

 

[iTzJu]

I didn't think that the bacteria would consume the nitrates. I understood the bacteria would consume ammonia and nitrites, but I thought that the exportation of nitrates had to be done through other processes, such as water-changes and photosynthesis.

nope, carbon dosing, carbon polymers (bio-pellets), nitrate reactors, etc.. take advantage of bacteria to remove nitrates.

 

[nickkohrn]

nope, carbon dosing, carbon polymers (bio-pellets), nitrate reactors, etc.. take advantage of bacteria to remove nitrates.

With that knowledge, what should I do to allow for a detectable level of nitrates? I presume that I should not add more bacteria. Should I feed more ammonia?

 

[iTzJu]

With that knowledge, what should I do to allow for a detectable level of nitrates? I presume that I should not add more bacteria. Should I feed more ammonia?

I know you mentioned that you wanted to keep a constant detectable phos/nitrates on your upcoming build but that is something you will need to figure out once the tank is running.

What you are effectively doing is curing/cycling your MarinePure plate, which it looks to have already cycled since your already seeing undetectable levels of ammonia and nitrite, as well as nitrate. At this point, I would occasionally add ammonia to keep the bacteria alive or ghost feed the container until you are ready to start your build.

Once you start your build, you can then worry about keeping detectable nitrates and phosphates in the new system. I know you are worried about battling Dinos but every tank is different - Dinos will come and go, and you can't really fully prevent that from happening, IME

 

[nickkohrn]

I know you mentioned that you wanted to keep a constant detectable phos/nitrates on your upcoming build but that is something you will need to figure out once the tank is running.

What you are effectively doing is curing/cycling your MarinePure plate, which it looks to have already cycled since your already seeing undetectable levels of ammonia and nitrite, as well as nitrate. At this point, I would occasionally add ammonia to keep the bacteria alive or ghost feed the container until you are ready to start your build.

Once you start your build, you can then worry about keeping detectable nitrates and phosphates in the new system. I know you are worried about battling Dinos but every tank is different - Dinos will come and go, and you can't really fully prevent that from happening, IME

Thank you for your time and help. It's greatly appreciated.

I will continue to dose ammonium chloride until I am ready to insert it into the new system. At that point, it should be ready for my fish, so I will start out feeding a little heavier than I normally would and keep a close eye on the levels. I would rather start out with higher levels and perform more water-changes that to deprive the system of those nutrients. I can then make necessary adjustments.

 

[Dan_P]

I recently tore down my frag tank due to dinoflagellates that I could not beat. I was unable to maintain detectable levels of nitrates and phosphates. I decided to put my fish into a quarantine tank and add a HOB filter with a sponge, PVC, heater, and Fritz Turbostart 900. I have not had any detectable ammonia.

Then, I added a new MarinePure plate, a ~8" piece of live rock from a local shop, a heater, and a pump to a holding container so that I could seed the MarinePure plate that will be going into my upcoming Waterbox. I added some Fritz Turbostart 900 to that as well. I dosed some Dr Tim's ammonium chloride to reach ~2ppm. I tested over the next two days and there was a spike in ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. However, after testing today, which is the third day, ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates are all undetectable. The tote is black, and there is a lid blocking light from getting into it. I added another dose of ammonia today.

I don't want to battle dinoflagellates in my upcoming build, so I am trying to reach and maintain detectable levels of nitrates and phosphates by adding ammonium chloride to feed the bacteria. However, I am unable to detect nitrates today, even without any methods of exportation. I haven't performed any water-changes. I haven't added any other chemicals or media.

What could be causing the nitrates to return to an undetectable level after being detectable?

I would say that not seeing nitrates is unusual. How are you testing for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

Denitrification bacteria usually take awhile to get established but I have read that bacteria additions can quickly establish a population of nitrification bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrates. Maybe that piece of live rock is consuming what little nitrates are being produced. I bet nitrates will start to accumulate as you continue to feed more ammonium chloride to the system.

 

[nickkohrn]

How are you testing for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

I'm using an API saltwater test kit.

Maybe that piece of live rock is consuming what little nitrates are being produced.

I picked that piece out a tub that the owner states has been in there for a minimum of four months. I wonder if it has a large enough population that can consume the nitrates quickly.

I bet nitrates will start to accumulate as you continue to feed more ammonium chloride to the system.

I will continue to feed the bacteria with the ammonium chloride and drop some pellets in occasionally to see if I can get and maintain a detectable level of nitrates. I don't want to battle dinoflagellates again due to ultra-low/undetectable levels.

 

[Dan_P]

I'm using an API saltwater test kit.



I picked that piece out a tub that the owner states has been in there for a minimum of four months. I wonder if it has a large enough population that can consume the nitrates quickly.



I will continue to feed the bacteria with the ammonium chloride and drop some pellets in occasionally to see if I can get and maintain a detectable level of nitrates. I don't want to battle dinoflagellates again due to ultra-low/undetectable levels.

API test kits are OK but not sensitive on the low end. You may have some nitrates already. Just about any other kit will be more sensitive (and more expensive).

Sounds like you are a believer in the “low nitrates = greater risk of dinoflagellates” hypothesis. I never saw any of the data that supports the idea.

 

[infinite0180]

I bet if you keep adding the ammonia your nitrates will rise. I cycled my tank for 2 months and kept adding ammonia every 3 or 4 days. By the end my nitrates were sky high but the ammonia and nitrite would be gone in no time. I dont see how this matter though, youll be pulling that plate out of that water anyways when you add it to your new tank. Youll end up leaving most of those nitrates behind in the water...

 

[theMeat]

I would ween off the ammonia as you replace with food.
If all the rock and sand is new it is absorbing nitrates along with new marine plate. Shouldn’t absorb enough nitrates to stop you from gaining nitrates altogether

Stop dosing is my advice

 

[nickkohrn]

Sounds like you are a believer in the “low nitrates = greater risk of dinoflagellates” hypothesis. I never saw any of the data that supports the idea.

My recent teardown made me a believer. It was the first system that I attempted to run nitrates and phosphates at ultra-low levels because I wanted to get a feel for running low nutrients for an SPS system. It has been the only system that I have had in over a decade that I battled dinoflagellates without success. It could have been coincidence, though.

I dont see how this matter though, youll be pulling that plate out of that water anyways when you add it to your new tank. Youll end up leaving most of those nitrates behind in the water...

I agree. I am just on high-alert after my recent teardown, so I wanted to ensure that I have a firm understanding of why it's happening and how to make changes if I need to. Also, I want to have an understanding of what to do to control the levels before I get corals into the system.

 

[nickkohrn]

If all the rock and sand is new it is absorbing nitrates along with new marine plate.

I currently have a single MarinePure plate, which was new, and a piece of live rock, which was in a system for a minimum of four months. There is no sand in the holding system that the MarinePure and rock are in as I will be going bare-bottom in my upcoming build. I just wanted to get the MarinePure plate seeded well before I get that system set up.

 

[MnFish1]

I'm using an API saltwater test kit.



I picked that piece out a tub that the owner states has been in there for a minimum of four months. I wonder if it has a large enough population that can consume the nitrates quickly.



I will continue to feed the bacteria with the ammonium chloride and drop some pellets in occasionally to see if I can get and maintain a detectable level of nitrates. I don't want to battle dinoflagellates again due to ultra-low/undetectable levels.

If I were you unless you have a good reason would put the rock in my tank not in a dark bucket and measure things there add some fish. Stop adding ammonia.

 

[MnFish1]

My recent teardown made me a believer. It was the first system that I attempted to run nitrates and phosphates at ultra-low levels because I wanted to get a feel for running low nutrients for an SPS system. It has been the only system that I have had in over a decade that I battled dinoflagellates without success. It could have been coincidence, though.



I agree. I am just on high-alert after my recent teardown, so I wanted to ensure that I have a firm understanding of why it's happening and how to make changes if I need to. Also, I want to have an understanding of what to do to control the levels before I get corals into the system.

Dinoflagellates are not prevented by a teardown. They are prevented by eliminating the chemistries that caused them in the first place. Imho