What is happening to my soft corals?

[JCTReefer]

If you find by feeding more you’re unable to raise phosphates, I’d recommend dosing something such as sea chem flourish phosphorus. For dosing nitrogen, I make my own stock solution using pharmaceutical grade sodium nitrate from a company named Loudwolf. It’s a lot cheaper doing it that way. A Hanna ULR HI736 checker for phosphates is a must also for measuring low levels. Amazon is the cheapest place I’ve found seachem flourish phosphorus. Here’s a link for making stock nitrate solution. It’s an awesome calculator.

James' Planted Tank - Dosing Calculator

Seachem Flourish Phosphorus 500ml

Search - Sodium nitrate

www.loudwolf.com

 

[sixline]

Update:

• The ICP kit arrived today. I'm hoping to send out the water sample tomorrow and get the realists back in a week or so.
• My Hana Alkalinity tester arrived today. I plan on testing a freshly made batch of saltwater and my tank water tomorrow or Saturday.
• I did a 15 gallon water change today.

At this point, I've pretty much given up on the recent coral purchases (GSP, Kenya trees, and toadstools died immediately and zoas are heading downhill, there are some palys that might last). I'm more concentrated on just trying to find out what is wrong in preparation for buying yet another round. If I don't find something significant with the ICP test, I may just stick with FOWLR.

 

[sixline]

So I sent out the ICP kit yesterday, and today I was getting ready to play with my new goodies from Marine Depot:

• Hanna Electronic Thermometer
• Hanna electric ALK tester

I thought it will be interesting to see what this ALK test says since my other two (Salifert and Red Sea) were reading so low and didn't alway seem to agree with each other. But first, a quick temperature check. I pulled out the new Hana thermometer, stuck the probe in the water and read 90.6 degrees Fahrenheit.

Wait, what? Can that be? I went and got a cheap medical thermometer and stuck it in my tank and got the exact same reading. So now I guess it is confession time. I have an Eheim Jager TruTemp heater that has both a temperature setting and a calibration wheel on the top. I remember setting and calibrating it way back when I set up the tank many years ago. I had one of those cheap stick on thermometers that didn't last long, but alway read at 77 degrees as I intended. But once that broke, I never tested temperature....ever. I feel like such an idiot.

So, I pulled the heater out of the sump. It was covered in coralline. I cleaned it as best as I could and set the temp to what I think is around 77. I considered heating a bucket of water to get the temperature and calibration just right, but instead placed it back in the sump. I am going to monitor temperature like crazy and get it set right. I may also be in the market for another heater. This one is very long (250W model I believe) and hard to remove and replace from my sump. I may also look for temperature monitors to alert me when the temperature is out of range. I need to research these types of products, so any advice would be appreciated.

The good news, is I think I may have found the smoking gun in my tank. I was getting so discouraged since I have read so much about the hobby and it seemed I was doing everything right, but with no success. Hopefully this will be a teachable moment.

More to come...

 

[JCTReefer]

So I sent out the ICP kit yesterday, and today I was getting ready to play with my new goodies from Marine Depot:

• Hanna Electronic Thermometer
• Hanna electric ALK tester

I thought it will be interesting to see what this ALK test says since my other two (Salifert and Red Sea) were reading so low and didn't alway seem to agree with each other. But first, a quick temperature check. I pulled out the new Hana thermometer, stuck the probe in the water and read 90.6 degrees Fahrenheit.

Wait, what? Can that be? I went and got a cheap medical thermometer and stuck it in my tank and got the exact same reading. So now I guess it is confession time. I have an Eheim Jager TruTemp heater that has both a temperature setting and a calibration wheel on the top. I remember setting and calibrating it way back when I set up the tank many years ago. I had one of those cheap stick on thermometers that didn't last long, but alway read at 77 degrees as I intended. But once that broke, I never tested temperature....ever. I feel like such an idiot.

So, I pulled the heater out of the sump. It was covered in coralline. I cleaned it as best as I could and set the temp to what I think is around 77. I considered heating a bucket of water to get the temperature and calibration just right, but instead placed it back in the sump. I am going to monitor temperature like crazy and get it set right. I may also be in the market for another heater. This one is very long (250W model I believe) and hard to remove and replace from my sump. I may also look for temperature monitors to alert me when the temperature is out of range. I need to research these types of products, so any advice would be appreciated.

The good news, is I think I may have found the smoking gun in my tank. I was getting so discouraged since I have read so much about the hobby and it seemed I was doing everything right, but with no success. Hopefully this will be a teachable moment.

More to come...

I think that is definitely the smoking gun!!!!!!!
Glad you figured it out!!! High temp = less oxygen.
Less oxygen = lower ph. Temperature effects a lot!
Randy Holmes Farley stated this about temperature. “Temperature impacts reef aquarium inhabitants in a variety of ways. First and foremost, the animals' metabolic rates rise as temperature rises. They may consequently use more oxygen, carbon dioxide, nutrients, calcium and alkalinity at higher temperatures. This higher metabolic rate can also increase both their growth rate and waste production at higher temperatures.

 

[sixline]

I think that is definitely the smoking gun!!!!!!!
Glad you figured it out!!! High temp = less oxygen.
Less oxygen = lower ph. Temperature effects a lot!
Randy Holmes Farley started this about temperature. “Temperature impacts reef aquarium inhabitants in a variety of ways. First and foremost, the animals' metabolic rates rise as temperature rises. They may consequently use more oxygen, carbon dioxide, nutrients, calcium and alkalinity at higher temperatures. This higher metabolic rate can also increase both their growth rate and waste production at higher temperatures.

Thanks. I hope we’re right. I’m going to take a temperature reading every hour and monitor the livestock. Science!

 

[Aqua Man]

Ouch! Good catch. When things are looking off it’s always good to check the basics first.

 

[sixline]

Slowly got the tempter down to 83.0F. I'm shooting for around 78 degrees and stable.

Like virtually every other reef topic, there are differing opinions even from the experts on recommended temperatures.

No immediate changes in the few remaining corals. maybe there is also something else wrong, or maybe they need more time for zooxanthellae to reproduce, or maybe it is too late for these particular specimens to recover. I'll continue to post updates until I have a healthy coral tank or give up trying.

 

[sixline]

Temperature now at 81 degrees.

 

[William Norman]

Temperature now at 81 degrees.

If you have any of the corals still in the tank next time you might want to take the temp reduction slower. Most likely they would not like the quick movement.

 

[sixline]

If you have any of the corals still in the tank next time you might want to take the temp reduction slower. Most likely they would not like the quick movement.

Thank you, William.

I am hoping there will not be a next time!
I plan on upgrading my heating system soon and am reattaching now. The temperature decrease I did was has been about 3 degrees a day, which I unscientifically guessed was slow enough.

If there is ever a next time, I will try and go slower with the reduction.
Just checked out your aggressive FOWLR - great work!

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

First post!!

I've been having trouble migrating my tank from a FOWLR to one that includes soft corals. I've purchased green star polyps, zooanthids and toadstool leathers several times now, and everything eventually dies, or in some cases, never even opens at all after getting into my tank. For example, I recently bought some zoas, a pair of kenya trees and some GSP. The GSP never opened and the kenya trees withered away in two or three days. The zooanthids opened right away, but now are looking a bit more tentative.

I'm trying to figure out the issue.

Some preliminary information:

• 100g tank, set up for 10 years. Fish and inverts (snails, conch, urchin) never die.
  
  
• Good circulation with Ecotech vortex pumps
  
  
• Lighting is a pair of Hydra 26 LEDs using a time tested color algorithm from successful soft coral tanks
  
  
• RO/DI water for water changes and ATO (tested at 0.0 total dissolved solids)
  
  
• Reef crystals salt

I test my water on occasion, but to be honest I'm a bit skeptical of the accuracy of tests.

First of all, I tested some freshly mixed water. I got these numbers:

• specific gravity 1.025
  
  
• pH 8.3
  
  
• calcium 430ppm
  
  
• dKH 12.5 (Salifert) 12.3 (Red Sea)

I've only done that test once, but I test my tank water periodically and the results tend to be like this:

• specific gravity 1.025
  
  
• pH 8.2 + or - 0.1
  
  
• calcium 400ppm + or - 15ppm
  
  
• dKH 5.9 to 6.8 (Red Sea reading is usually lower than Salifert)
  
  
• Magnesium 1450ppm
  
  
• Phosphates/Ammonia 0
  
  
• Nitrates 5ppm

I wanted to get some opinions on what might be going on. I have a few guesses but don't want to say because I don't want to influence anyone's answer and also I am not too confident in my opinion. feel free to request any more information if needed.

Possibly more WC, my numbers were off 1 month ago, started more frequent WC, results like day and night. From 0-10 at 9

 

[William Norman]

Thank you, William.

I am hoping there will not be a next time!
I plan on upgrading my heating system soon and am reattaching now. The temperature decrease I did was has been about 3 degrees a day, which I unscientifically guessed was slow enough.

If there is ever a next time, I will try and go slower with the reduction.
Just checked out your aggressive FOWLR - great work!

Something to look at are the BRS Heaters and Controllers. I went with BRS Heaters and the Inkbird ITC-306A WiFi Temperature Controllers in my tanks. I also used Ehiem prior. I had pairs. So I pulled the oldest one . I will replace with a BRS when they hit 24 months old. Good news is that the BRS heaters are much shorter. I like 2 slightly smaller heaters than 1 big one.

 

[sixline]

Something to look at are the BRS Heaters and Controllers. I went with BRS Heaters and the Inkbird ITC-306A WiFi Temperature Controllers in my tanks. I also used Ehiem prior. I had pairs. So I pulled the oldest one . I will replace with a BRS when they hit 24 months old. Good news is that the BRS heaters are much shorter. I like 2 slightly smaller heaters than 1 big one.

Thanks fro the recommendations. I am definitely considering this or a similar setup.

 

[JCTReefer]

May I suggest a commercial temp controller. Have you heard of Ranco? This is what I’ve been using for years. They are a super awesome controller. Dependable, well built, and designed for the elements.

Search results for: '' - Bulk Reef Supply

Bulk Reef Supply - Saltwater Aquarium Supplies for Reef Tanks

www.marinedepot.com

 

[sixline]

I've obtained my ICP Analysis results and are going to look them over (attached). It is much easier to view on the website, but I don't think I can share that.

Just about everything that has been tested so far looks pretty good, except for maybe Calcium and Iodine.
Calcium is at 491.25ppm which is high and Iodine is at 0ppm which is low (the ICP testers recommend 0.06ppm).

There is no ICP test for dKH, but I will try a test with my new Hanna checker today.

So it is starting to look like the water parameters that might be causing my lack of success with soft corals might be Iodine, Ca or dKH.

How many of you with successful soft coral tanks test or dose Iodine? I really don't want to add another dosing and test to my regime unless absolutely necessary.



tagging thread: #reefsquad

 

[sixline]

The Hanna checker just gave a result of dKH 6.6

 

[sixline]

This still doesn't make sense to me. All of my water parameters are OK except for Ca being a bit high and Alkalinity being a bit low, and Iodine being a bit low. According to Randy Holmes Farley's article here I am in zone 4, but just barely. And I know a couple of successful local reefkeepers and they're not doing anything special. They're not testing and dosing iodine, using two part solutions or any of that. Sure, they're not running SPS show tanks, but can keep GSP and mushrooms thriving. They're just doing water changes.

I'm going to start slowly adding baking soda while testing calcium and Alk to get from area 4 to the recommended zone in Randy's article, but I'm a bit skeptical of that being the culprit in my tank. Do these parameters matter as much for soft corals since they don't have skeletons? It just doesn't seem likely that being so slightly off could have such disastrous consequences. The same thing with iodine. How did my tank get so low in iodine? And is that enough to wipe out corals so quickly and reliably?

 

[sixline]

Tested a fresh batch of newly mixed saltwater during my water change today. Alkalinity at 12.5 (salifert) 12.3 (red sea) 11.4 (Hanna). Calcium is at 430ppm (Red Sea).

Tank water is at 6.8dKH (Salifert) 5.9 (Red Sea) 6.6 (Hanna). Calcium is at 430ppm (Red Sea).

New corals added to the tank die still die quickly.

 

[Patrick.S]

Sounds a bit like an issue I had early with low nutrients. Fairly low stocking for a 100. Have you tried a particulate food like reef roids or Red Sea reef energy. Something to consider.

 

[sixline]

Sounds a bit like an issue I had early with low nutrients. Fairly low stocking for a 100. Have you tried a particulate food like reef roids or Red Sea reef energy. Something to consider.

I thought about the low nutrient possibility a bit, but the tank does grow algae on the front glass, and I had an aipstia bloom twice now (both times completely cleared with berghia). It seems to me like those are indicators of high nutrients, although you may have noticed my phosphates test really low.

I do have reef roids, and on the rare occasion I have open polyps in the tank I try to feed them twice a week. I turn off all the circulation pumps, mix it into a slurry, and then gently spot feed them. I can see the polyps 'eating' which seems to be a good sign. They they die in a week or three.

Thanks for your reply.