what is infecting my new emperor?

[coralbeauties]

I just got this little guy last thursday and it has had this white patch on its side since day one. Currently in qt with copper. Any ideas what it is and am I treating it properly? Poor little guy came in little rough with frayed and tattered fins along with this patch on its side.
thanks
Jeff

 

[SkillKing21]

I may be fin rot not too sure.

 

[Big G]

Fin rot and white-ish filmy areas can be a symptom of bacterial infection. Dosing the fish in a QT with an antibiotic like Kanaplex, Furan2, NFG is worth consideration. NFG can work wonders on fish that have been subject to rough handling in transit. But it's a bit harder to find (internet). The closest is Furan2 which is much more easily obtained.

 

[coralbeauties]

Fin rot and white-ish filmy areas can be a symptom of bacterial infection. Dosing the fish in a QT with an antibiotic like Kanaplex, Furan2, NFG is worth consideration. NFG can work wonders on fish that have been subject to rough handling in transit. But it's a bit harder to find (internet). The closest is Furan2 which is much more easily obtained.

any idea if furan2 can be used along with copper? Currently keeping a new idol, powder blue, and this emperor in a 30 gallon qt tank with copper.
thanks
jeff

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

Have you checked for flukes?

 

[Big G]

any idea if furan2 can be used along with copper? Currently keeping a new idol, powder blue, and this emperor in a 30 gallon qt tank with copper.
thanks
jeff

Yes, you can use antibiotics with copper. Always a good idea to use a powerhead aimed up to the surface actively rippling the water surface.

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

I seem to think I see a few spots, I would do a FW dip to check for flukes then definitely dose antibiotics if no flukes. If you find flukes I’d dose General Cure for those.

 

[coralbeauties]

Sad news today. I treated my tank with furan2 last night. Used the recommended dosage. The package read that you might experience some bacteria loss. fish were fine this mourning. I went down and checked them this afternoon and my moorish idol was dead, diamond goby sucked up into the powerhead intake, and the powder blue laying on it side. I quickly added amquel to remove any ammonia and the powder blue perked right up. The emperor seemed ok but an hour or so later it too was sucked up against my power head. I am both mad at myself and sad for the death of the fish. I guess the furan killed what little bit of bacteria I had in the system. Hopefully the next fish I get will be healthier that I wont need to add the furan.
Jeff

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

Sad news today. I treated my tank with furan2 last night. Used the recommended dosage. The package read that you might experience some bacteria loss. fish were fine this mourning. I went down and checked them this afternoon and my moorish idol was dead, diamond goby sucked up into the powerhead intake, and the powder blue laying on it side. I quickly added amquel to remove any ammonia and the powder blue perked right up. The emperor seemed ok but an hour or so later it too was sucked up against my power head. I am both mad at myself and sad for the death of the fish. I guess the furan killed what little bit of bacteria I had in the system. Hopefully the next fish I get will be healthier that I wont need to add the furan.
Jeff

Sorry for your losses.

 

[coralbeauties]

powder blue seemed fine. i removed lid and added food and the fish totally freaked out and died. Not sure why it went berserk but it must have possibly had a stroke. Today was a total loss of all 5 fish that I had in qt. I know that it is important to qt but sometimes when things go horribly wrong like today it makes you think twice about it.
Jeff

 

[SteveC]

Jeff,
Really sad to hear about your fish, I know that feeling.
I just wanted to say in future be aware that adding the Amquel or Prime ( any of the reducers ) while treating with copper makes for a chemical reaction that makes the copper toxic for the fish. Something like 10 times it’s original strength. They would not survive that level. it’s what ultimately killed them all.

If you are concerned about ammonia, then water change.
Ammonia will build up rapidly in a QT tank, that does not have a bio filter.

 

[coralbeauties]

Jeff,
Really sad to hear about your fish, I know that feeling.
I just wanted to say in future be aware that adding the Amquel or Prime ( any of the reducers ) while treating with copper makes for a chemical reaction that makes the copper toxic for the fish. Something like 10 times it’s original strength. They would not survive that level. it’s what ultimately killed them all.

If you are concerned about ammonia, then water change.
Ammonia will build up rapidly in a QT tank, that does not have a bio filter.

wow I wasnt aware of this. so I poisoned the fish thinking I was saving them. I have been actually adding maybe 10 ml of amquel to keep out the ammonia. The toxic strength must not show up on a copper test kit. I was testing the copper levels with a hanna checker and my highest level measured .46 I will make sure the tank is well cycled this time before purchasing fish again. Will a biowheel hang on the back filter populate enough bacteria? I also have one of those sponge filters with an air stone running.
thanks for telling me this or i might have made the same mistake again.
Jeff

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

Sorry to hear you lost them

 

[Nokiaec11]

Don't knock yourself, Angels are the most beautiful, but are one of the hardest to get fully acclimated, and at the juvenile stg they prone to being bullied...The guy at my local LFS tells me many stories of customers who try Angels. The main thing I find is that many times the customers tanks are too small

 

[SteveC]

Jeff,
Yes, unfortunately you did kill them.
I believe the hanna will read the correct copper in the tank, however its the toxicity that the copper now has. Effectively, even though your Hanna has a reading of say 0.5 it will have the toxicity of say 5.0.
Hope that explains it.

 

[SteveC]

Jeff,
Yes, unfortunately you did kill them.
I believe the hanna will read the correct copper in the tank, however its the toxicity that the copper now has. Effectively, even though your Hanna has a reading of say 0.5 it will have the toxicity of say 5.0.
Hope that explains it.

 

[SteveC]

There are so many stressor events when we do quarantine.
I feel the most important to achieve is perfect water quality.
By that im mean, no ammonia and well oxygenated. As least physical stress to the fish as possible..... dont cram them in, tank large enough, hiding places etc.
These fish have enough stress just being in quarantine as it is being medicated without adding more!
Imagine if you were sick or unwell. You are now forced to share your bed with a dozen more people who are all deficating in the bed, using up all the oxygen in the room. Now you are all struggling to breathe just to stay alive. You have nowhere else to go or hide. The effects of the ammonia in tge room is starting to burn your skin and making it even more difficult to breathe. Your not far from death just like the others.

I hope this analogy makes people realise just how important water quality is for our animals.
Cheers steve

 

[coralbeauties]

there is a guy in our club that used to order in wholesale fish and qt them for sale. He said he would use amquel all the time with his copper without any issues. He feels it was ammonia that killed them. Either way they are all dead. Makes me wondering if I should go hypo with the next batch of fish and remove the potential poison that copper can be. Seems simple other then maintaining the ph at a good level with the lower salinity.
thanks
Jeff

 

[SteveC]

there is a guy in our club that used to order in wholesale fish and qt them for sale. He said he would use amquel all the time with his copper without any issues. He feels it was ammonia that killed them. Either way they are all dead. Makes me wondering if I should go hypo with the next batch of fish and remove the potential poison that copper can be. Seems simple other then maintaining the ph at a good level with the lower salinity.
thanks
Jeff

He is / was wrong about the copper. I guess it’s a toss up wether it was the toxic levels of copper or toxic levels of ammonia that killed his fish. Either way he killed them.

Hypo, is not an easy method that you think it might be. You still need to watch for ammonia and as water evaporates you need to keep the salinity level correct. Other than that hypo doesn’t treat for everything.

Have you thought about CP if your worried about copper? With any method you need clean water and oxygen. I’m sure that those two kill more fish than copper at correct levels, it’s just easier to blame copper.

He must not have sold many if he killed them all. He May of said he had no issues mixing Amquel and Copper but I would say his track record would indicate otherwise.

 

[coralbeauties]

He is / was wrong about the copper. I guess it’s a toss up wether it was the toxic levels of copper or toxic levels of ammonia that killed his fish. Either way he killed them.

Hypo, is not an easy method that you think it might be. You still need to watch for ammonia and as water evaporates you need to keep the salinity level correct. Other than that hypo doesn’t treat for everything.

Have you thought about CP if your worried about copper? With any method you need clean water and oxygen. I’m sure that those two kill more fish than copper at correct levels, it’s just easier to blame copper.

He must not have sold many if he killed them all. He May of said he had no issues mixing Amquel and Copper but I would say his track record would indicate otherwise.

He just said that he felt he didnt lose any due to the amquel and copper mix. what makes me question my fish death was after I found the first dead fish I added 5ml of amquel and tested for ammonia and it tested 0. Not set on what method to try with the next fish. What is CP? Dont want to mess with tank transfer.
thanks
jeff

 

[SteveC]

He just said that he felt he didnt lose any due to the amquel and copper mix. what makes me question my fish death was after I found the first dead fish I added 5ml of amquel and tested for ammonia and it tested 0. Not set on what method to try with the next fish. What is CP? Dont want to mess with tank transfer.
thanks
jeff

Hi Jeff,
It’s not just me, it’s well known about copper and any of the reducers. Most of the Ammonia test kits cannot read ammonia in the presence of copper, they will give a false reading. That is why most use a seachem Ammonia Badge, because it can indicate Ammonia in the presence of copper.

CP = Chloroquine Phosphate

I suggest you read the “ stickies” here so you understand what you need to do.
Steve