What is Polyalcohols

Salty_Northerner · Dec 1, 2023

What is Polyalcohols? It's in Tropic Marin elimi NP and it's a tiny dose. .1ml per 26 gallons. What is it and how does it work to lower n03 and p04? And is there anything to worry about by using it or any special things to watch for while using it?

TX_REEF · Dec 1, 2023

poly alcohol, just some sort of alcohol. I suppose it's similar to old school theory behind vodka dosing to reduce nitrates and phosphates

"The addition of vodka/ethanol is thought to increase bacterial biomass. For this, vodka addition would result in bacterial growth and reproduction. During this process nutrients in the water (including NO3 and PO4) are taken up for the formation of new macromolecules that are needed in cell synthesis and viability."

https://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 1, 2023

There are a wide range of polyalcohols, and one might use that term (possibly misleadingly) to cover a vast array of possible molecules. Anything with two or more hydroxyl groups on it, including table sugar and glucose, will qualify. So does the antibiotic erythromycin, any polysaccharide such as starch, and plenty of toxins. It's actually not a very revealing description.

One that might be used is glycerol:

Salty_Northerner · Dec 1, 2023

Wow ok thanks for the info. So I'm literally carbon dosing the tank then? Do I need to worry about oxygen depletion and I'm assuming the bacteria needs to be exported or?

I'm not a fan of carbon dosing just because I don't trust myself and seems to complicated and afraid of crashing my system. The only carbon dosing I've start was doing a gallon WC on the tropic marin bio actif salt that claim to be a safe way to carbon dose a tank.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 1, 2023

Salty_Northerner said:
Wow ok thanks for the info. So I'm literally carbon dosing the tank then? Do I need to worry about oxygen depletion and I'm assuming the bacteria needs to be exported or?

I'm not a fan of carbon dosing just because I don't trust myself and seems to complicated and afraid of crashing my system. The only carbon dosing I've start was doing a gallon WC on the tropic marin bio actif salt that claim to be a safe way to carbon dose a tank.

Sure. tropic Marin describes it as:

"Carbon dosing concentrate for effective reduction of nitrates and phosphates. "

Elimi-NP | Produktinformationen

www.tropic-marin-smartinfo.com

Salty_Northerner · Dec 1, 2023

So can you give a simple minded individual info on the 10.1 ratio. Is it 10 n03 and 1 po4? What is this 10.1 ratio? That I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around. I really don't have any algae issues except a slight clear film on the glass and a light brown sand bed. The sand bed I was dealing with diatoms and to aid the reduction I'd suck the top layer off the sand bed and was left to dry in a bucket. Once dry for some time I placed the substrate back into the aquarium and over a few days it went brown. Can diatoms go dormant when dry and come back again after placed back into the tank. I just don't want to be chasing my tail with this.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 1, 2023

Salty_Northerner said:
So can you give a simple minded individual info on the 10.1 ratio. Is it 10 n03 and 1 po4? What is this 10.1 ratio? That I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around. I really don't have any algae issues except a slight clear film on the glass and a light brown sand bed. The sand bed I was dealing with diatoms and to aid the reduction I'd suck the top layer off the sand bed and was left to dry in a bucket. Once dry for some time I placed the substrate back into the aquarium and over a few days it went brown. Can diatoms go dormant when dry and come back again after placed back into the tank. I just don't want to be chasing my tail with this.

Not sure where you got 10:1, but in general, most folks can and should ignore N and P ratios for most purposes.

Growing organisms build tissues out of N and P, and those two atoms are generally used such that a lot more N than P is needed. However, there are various process that use on or the other and not both, so consumption overall often does not follow any particular ratio.

Those ratios should not, IMO, be taken as desirable ratios in the water. It is much better to target absolute concentrations, than to look at ratios where one can easily be misled if both are too high or too low. Nothing bad happens if the ratio deviates somewhat.

Salty_Northerner · Dec 1, 2023

Ok so yesterday I tested the water and the n03 was 11.4 up from 10.7 in 2 days. P04 has risen to 44 or .135 from 38 or .117 on the same duration. Tropic Marin show the 10:1and that's what's got me questioning what it is or how to interpret it.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 1, 2023

I’d ignore that last sentence about the ratio. I don’t agree with it. It would claim that 5-10 ppm nitrate and 0.1 ppm phosphate is not ok, which is seemingly false.

Salty_Northerner · Dec 2, 2023

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
I’d ignore that last sentence about the ratio. I don’t agree with it. It would claim that 5-10 ppm nitrate and 0.1 ppm phosphate is not ok, which is seemingly false.

This stuff is pretty potent. Dosed for 2 days and it dropped the nitrates from 11.4 to 9.3 and phosphate from 0.135 down to .058. Would you recommend starting NP balance with those numbers?

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 2, 2023

Salty_Northerner said:
This stuff is pretty potent. Dosed for 2 days and it dropped the nitrates from 11.4 to 9.3 and phosphate from 0.135 down to .058. Would you recommend starting NP balance with those numbers?

FWIW, i do not think carbon dosing will remove that much phosphate that fast and not without dropping nitrate more than that. i expect that change is at least partly for other reasons, including testing variability.

At the current values, I would not dose anything and wait and see how they trend.

Salty_Northerner · Dec 2, 2023

Randy Holmes-Farley said:
FWIW, i do not think carbon dosing will remove that much phosphate that fast and not without dropping nitrate more than that. i expect that change is at least partly for other reasons, including testing variability.

At the current values, I would not dose anything and wait and see how they trend.

Thank you and will follow your advice. I probably should've mentioned I'm also using phosguard as well so maybe that could be why the bigger drop in P over N? Also started to transition over to bio actif salt as well.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Dec 2, 2023

Salty_Northerner said:
Thank you and will follow your advice. I probably should've mentioned I'm also using phosguard as well so maybe that could be why the bigger drop in P over N? Also started to transition over to bio actif salt as well.

Yes, that could explain the P drop.