What is the most Co2 efficient Reactor out there?

[Charterreefer]

I have a 250 gallon sps tank and have been using a Korellen 3002 Ca reactor (with second stage) at 55 b/min and 50 ml/min effluent rate. I am not getting a high enough dkH level in the tank (6.9dkH). If I increase the bubble rate the pH starts to drop considerably. It looks like I'm maxing out the reactor need a larger one.

I would like to know what the most efficient reactor is currently available (CO2 wise) and one that will not lower the pH too much. I try to keep pH at 8.0 or higher.
I would rather not spent thousands$$$ and keep it within the hundreds$ range.
No pH controller/probe would be a plus too.

Any info would be greatly appreciated!

 

[P-Dub]

The reactor is not the determining factor here. Any reaction chamber is just that. They all do the same thing provided they are properly dialed in and sized properly, and this is not something that just happens. The media that you are using will determine the efficiency. Some media will dissolve better in higher pH environments providing a more efficient reactor. Two Little Fishies Reborn media purportedly only requires an internal chamber pH of around 7.+ . I don't remember the exact recommended internal pH value but it is higher than others.

 

[ca1ore]

I think the two, or even three, chambered reactors are less likely to waste CO2 and affect tank PH. They can be pricy though. I've used the MTC ProCal to good effect for many years. They show up on the used market every now and then.

 

[jda]

Any of them. All of them. It is all in your tune. Reactors with have the inlet tube down a few inches from the top can let CO2 accumulate if you have too much CO2 and let you know that you are being wasteful - Korallin is one of them. I have Korallins - a 3002 and a 10002.

It is possible that your reactor is too small if you have a huge demand, but it is not likely that you will get a more efficient reactor.

110 bubbles and 100ml of effluent will get you twice as much output.

How old is your media? I have found that once it shrinks to about 50% of what it was when full, then it starts to lag behind a bit and I have to compensate with more drips and bubbles. Fresh media produces better, IME.

What is your effluent dKh? I try and keep mine around 20-22 and just turn the flow and bubbles up as I need to.

 

[Charterreefer]

Any of them. All of them. It is all in your tune. Reactors with have the inlet tube down a few inches from the top can let CO2 accumulate if you have too much CO2 and let you know that you are being wasteful - Korallin is one of them. I have Korallins - a 3002 and a 10002.

It is possible that your reactor is too small if you have a huge demand, but it is not likely that you will get a more efficient reactor.

110 bubbles and 100ml of effluent will get you twice as much output.

How old is your media? I have found that once it shrinks to about 50% of what it was when full, then it starts to lag behind a bit and I have to compensate with more drips and bubbles. Fresh media produces better, IME.

What is your effluent dKh? I try and keep mine around 20-22 and just turn the flow and bubbles up as I need to.

My effluent is around 26 dkH (50 ml/min 60 b/min). If I increase my CO2 rate past 60 b/m my pH starts to drop substantially. My tank is loaded with mature sps. Apparently it requires a lot of Ca although, I think you have me sticking with Korallin reactors. I just looked at a Korallin C4002. It's rated at 1600 gal which I think is probably way overrated gallon wise based on my experience with my C3002 but might be ok for a 300 gallon total (pluming a 60 gal frag tank into the system soon too). What size system are you using your C10002 on? What is your pH and dkH maintained at? What are your settings?
My media is relatively new although it is ARM/very course. I just read some threads (Battle coral for one) that said that their tank wasn't happy and didn't look as good with ARM as is did with Reborn. What type of media do you use? I have gone back and forth from Reborn and ARM.

 

[jda]

I use ARM and I have no do not think that I could tell much of a difference between the two. I use the coarse, but not the extra coarse. It is all pretty much the same stuff. I have used Reborn in the past, but it does not come in 55 pound sacks like ARM does - at least that I could find. I could tell a difference with the man-made stuff - no strontium, magnesium or trace elements in that... and it was really hard to dissolve and needed to be around 6.2, IIRC. No more man-made for me.

I live in Colorado and the air quality here is excellent and we have our windows open all year. My PH is never below 8.1 and night and usually peaks at 8.4. In Missouri, I was a 7.8 to 8.1 guy with the CaRx. I keep my tank dKh around 7.0.... more after a new tune and less a few months later when corals grow in a bit and use more... so from 7.2-7.4 down to 6.6-6.8 over three months.

My 10002 is on a 240g display or about 300g total, so not huge. I got it used for really cheap in a fire-sale, or else I never would have spent the extra over a 4002 or 3002. It could do the same as a 1502 run really fast with a wide-open effluent and 3-5 bubbles per second, but the media would not last nearly as long and I would be replacing it every few weeks.

If you increase the MLs to 60 mls per minute, with the 60 bubbles, this should keep the PH about the same, yet increase the output by 20%. If your input/output is still restricted, then you have not maxed out your CaRx... turn the effluent up and then the bubbles to match.

I am not saying that Korallin is best or anything, but they are all about the same to me... all that I want is an Ehiem pump that will not die if it runs dry and reverse flow. If I needed a new one, I would look at models with the same stuff like Geo.

 

[Charterreefer]

I use ARM and I have no do not think that I could tell much of a difference between the two. I use the coarse, but not the extra coarse. It is all pretty much the same stuff. I have used Reborn in the past, but it does not come in 55 pound sacks like ARM does - at least that I could find. I could tell a difference with the man-made stuff - no strontium, magnesium or trace elements in that... and it was really hard to dissolve and needed to be around 6.2, IIRC. No more man-made for me.

I live in Colorado and the air quality here is excellent and we have our windows open all year. My PH is never below 8.1 and night and usually peaks at 8.4. In Missouri, I was a 7.8 to 8.1 guy with the CaRx. I keep my tank dKh around 7.0.... more after a new tune and less a few months later when corals grow in a bit and use more... so from 7.2-7.4 down to 6.6-6.8 over three months.

My 10002 is on a 240g display or about 300g total, so not huge. I got it used for really cheap in a fire-sale, or else I never would have spent the extra over a 4002 or 3002. It could do the same as a 1502 run really fast with a wide-open effluent and 3-5 bubbles per second, but the media would not last nearly as long and I would be replacing it every few weeks.

If you increase the MLs to 60 mls per minute, with the 60 bubbles, this should keep the PH about the same, yet increase the output by 20%. If your input/output is still restricted, then you have not maxed out your CaRx... turn the effluent up and then the bubbles to match.

I am not saying that Korallin is best or anything, but they are all about the same to me... all that I want is an Ehiem pump that will not die if it runs dry and reverse flow. If I needed a new one, I would look at models with the same stuff like Geo.

Thank you so much for your detailed reply. It is very helpful.

I hear what you're saying about raising the effluent and CO2 respectively although, my limiting factor currently seems to be pH going down when I turn CO2 up, leading me to believe that I am at the peak dkH production with the C3002. I believe that a larger reactor will help provide a larger volume of high dkH effluent to my system without raising the CO2 rate in the reactor, thereby preventing the lowering of pH (in the DT) from too much CO2 entering the DT.
I did raise the effluent output this morning (and raised the b/r to 62 from 55 b/m yesterday) to see if I can squeeze any more out of the C3002. I will monitor the pH of the system to see if it goes lower that 7.9 (that a read this morning). I don't feel comfortable at a lower system pH value.

 

[jda]

Let say that you end up needing to get to 75mls at 25 dKh for your tank (or whatever... pick a number). It will not matter to the pH if it comes from running "faster" though a 3002 or "slower" through a 4002... it is still 75mls of effluent on either.

What leads to peak dKh production is the ph value in the chamber being as low as possible without melting the media... so wherever the dKh is with a 6.4ish PH is pretty close to optimum. Then to increase, you just keep the PH and the dKh the same and up the throughput with more MLs and bubbles in the same porportion.

If you are 7.9 ph at night, then I would not sweat that. What do you hit during the day.. should be 8.2. I rarely got above 8.05, or so, in the old house and everything was doing well.

 

[Charterreefer]

Let say that you end up needing to get to 75mls at 25 dKh for your tank (or whatever... pick a number). It will not matter to the pH if it comes from running "faster" though a 3002 or "slower" through a 4002... it is still 75mls of effluent on either.

What leads to peak dKh production is the ph value in the chamber being as low as possible without melting the media... so wherever the dKh is with a 6.4ish PH is pretty close to optimum. Then to increase, you just keep the PH and the dKh the same and up the throughput with more MLs and bubbles in the same porportion.

If you are 7.9 ph at night, then I would not sweat that. What do you hit during the day.. should be 8.2. I rarely got above 8.05, or so, in the old house and everything was doing well.

I would like to get my system to a target of 7.5 dkH.
If I am I understanding what you are saying correctly is that even if I get a larger reactor I will still need to put in a certain amount of lower pH reactor effluent into my system to achieve a 7.5 dkH? So, a smaller reactor run at a faster rate with more CO2 and effluent output will still yield the same results? Am I correct in saying that the higher the desired system dkH that the lower the pH could possibly get? That it comes down to the fact that to get a high system dkH comes with the price of getting a lower system pH because of so much more low pH effluent going into the system from the reactor?

 

[ca1ore]

As I alluded to earlier, I use the MTC ProCal - have since about 1997. I am comfortable that it does not 'waste' CO2, but the effluent even run through a second chamber costs me .2 in pH. Accepting that hobby-grade pH measurements are fraught with error, my tank is nominally 7.8 at night and 8.1 in the morning; running fresh air through my fish room helps, but it is what it is. My tanks have run at that pH for decades, mostly without any observable negatives. As to the media, I use Reborn in my main rubble chamber and ARM fine in my second, scrubbing chamber.

BTW, there are other 'tricks' to getting the effluent pH up - run it into your skimmer, chaeto reactor or before your chaeto fuge (if you have one).

 

[jda]

Charter - yes, that is what I am saying.

Do you have the output in the center-top outlet of the Korallin turned off? If so, then you would be accumulating CO2 if you had excess. Some people plumb this back into their feed or return line, in which case you never know if there is excess CO2. This is one feature that I really love about the Korallin. If you have this "trap" activated and there is no air in the top of your reactor, then you are not wasting CO2.

Dripping kalk could make up the difference and keep PH up, but this is another level of commitment. Even when I had lower PH issues, I decided to live with them rather than mess with kalk... I know that I would not do well at the nearly-daily involvement and relying/trusting a hobby grade PH controller.

Something that really helped for me is that I got one of those huge window fans for our basement and every few weeks when it got cool at night, I would open all of the basement windows and let that thing blow all night to get the old air out. This would raise my PH up to 8.35 to 8.4, but it would slowly drift back down over the next few weeks. People talk about using an outside air line to the skimmer, or cracking a windows... I found all of these to be ridiculously ineffective, but when I did a whole sale air purge, then I saw a difference.

 

[Charterreefer]

Charter - yes, that is what I am saying.
Do you have the output in the center-top outlet of the Korallin turned off? If so, then you would be accumulating CO2 if you had excess. Some people plumb this back into their feed or return line, in which case you never know if there is excess CO2. This is one feature that I really love about the Korallin. If you have this "trap" activated and there is no air in the top of your reactor, then you are not wasting CO2.

That is a good concept to understand. Hopefully from tweaking it a bit more I won't have to get a new reactor.

Dripping kalk could make up the difference and keep PH up, but this is another level of commitment. Even when I had lower PH issues, I decided to live with them rather than mess with kalk... I know that I would not do well at the nearly-daily involvement and relying/trusting a hobby grade PH controller.

Something that really helped for me is that I got one of those huge window fans for our basement and every few weeks when it got cool at night, I would open all of the basement windows and let that thing blow all night to get the old air out. This would raise my PH up to 8.35 to 8.4, but it would slowly drift back down over the next few weeks. People talk about using an outside air line to the skimmer, or cracking a windows... I found all of these to be ridiculously ineffective, but when I did a whole sale air purge, then I saw a difference.

I've always felt the same way about using kalk. Are there any automated kalk systems out there?
I use the top output, I don't want the reactor shutting off and my tank pH has never gone drastically down from too much CO2 getting in the system.
Where does your effluent go? I have mine going into my skimmer which works well at removing excess CO2. I few times when I noticed that my pH was unusually high it was because my skimmer was malfunctioning. It keeps the pH up 0.1-0.2 dKh from running the reactor effluent into it.
I use outside air to feed the skimmer/ It might give me an extra .01 dkH...it's not much.

 

[jda]

My effluent goes into some chamber in the sump. My pH is always good, so I never cared to figure out an optimum place to drip it. I always want it to drip so that if the CO2 does go crazy, then the output just goes into the air instead of the sump water.

Attic (whole house) fan is what saves my tanks. One of these brings in fresh air every night for 6-8 hours at the tune of about 15k CFM. I am lucky to live in Colorado where the high yesterday was 91 with 18% humidity and the temp right now at 9:00 am is 61 off of a low of 54... so pulling in the cool night air is really nice. I pretty much have fresh air into my house every few days. The air quality is fantastic here without long periods of pollen or other contaminants. It was a nice surprise when we moved here to not only nearly never need to run the AC even when it gets to 100 degrees, but also for a high pH tank.
https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/...MIhv_f9KG12wIVRrbACh01XwDoEAQYAyABEgJhAPD_BwE

 

[Arthurfarris]

If you are using a reverse osmosis filter for your aquarium water, I recommend this Avanti reactor. This is a refillable filter cartridge. With just that, you already know that you will be saving quite a lot of money. This will save you from all the trouble changing disposable filters every month or so.

 

[outhouse]

ARM/very course.

Very well could be part of your problem. I switched to finer grades of crushed coral substrate, which gives me more surface area. Which makes tuning easier. I quit wasting money on specialty ca media decades ago. Cant tell the difference.

another trick is just paying for a regular sized cylinder and ditch these baby sized jobs that cost close to the same to refill. Id rather make a yearly trip to the welding shop

 

[outhouse]

Dripping kalk could make up the difference and keep PH up, but this is another level of commitment

using a gravity fed system with your ATO makes it a fill it and forget it type of system, I just wish I could double the kalk effluent

 

[outhouse]

I don't feel comfortable at a lower system pH value.

Its not good. Your corals will have more softer and brittle skeletons, but your pumps will love you for years. I added a huge second chamber and with a basement sump that is in a well vented under the house kind of basement, I have no problem with fresh air. And doing what I can.

 

[outhouse]

I want is an Ehiem pump that will not die if it runs dry and reverse flow. If I needed a new one, I would look at models with the same stuff like Geo

I love my GEO Ca reactor, best modd ive done is a jebao 2000 DC pump run on its next to lowest setting. all the debris ran through these the ehiem it came with lasted 5 years before the impeller bearings were shot. And used more AC which every little bit helps us long term reefers