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SaracensRugby

SaracensRugby

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Hi folks,

my turn I guess. Trying to figure out what this disease is. Has slowly killed off 3 of my fish that I have had for years, with 2 more looking like it’s starting. I think it is from live rock I got from a live rock company, only thing I can trace it back to. Or maybe when I added 10 anthias, but they all came from healthy, established system.
I have no snail/shrimp/etc, can I treat the whole tank and let the treatment Go away over time? Thanks in advance.

187D0932-ED61-487C-919E-ECE6C3FC1588.jpeg E7564AC7-8832-4DC3-88C2-C6201F505411.jpeg
 
www.dinkinsaquaticgardens.com
That does appear to be ich or possibly velvet. Both are treated using copper as described in the QT Protocol link below.

Treatment in a display tank is difficult. The live rock you have will absorb the copper and maintaining the correct concentration for 30 days will be a challenge. At the end of the treatment, the copper that was absorbed by the rock will leach back into the tank and will take a long time to get back to where you could have any coral or invertebrates in the tank. A Qt is a much better way to go. You will need to keep the DT fallow (no fish) for 7 - 10 weeks for the parasite to naturally die off.
 
ReefBot Lab, Automated Water Tester
SaracensRugby said:
I don't know what will be tougher, catching all the fish or the actual QT process. Thanks for the information, guess I need to go get an emergency QT system today.
Click to expand...
That's one of the reasons I QT before adding to the display tank. Catching the fish is definitely a challenge!
 
SaracensRugby said:
Hi folks,

my turn I guess. Trying to figure out what this disease is. Has slowly killed off 3 of my fish that I have had for years, with 2 more looking like it’s starting. I think it is from live rock I got from a live rock company, only thing I can trace it back to. Or maybe when I added 10 anthias, but they all came from healthy, established system.
I have no snail/shrimp/etc, can I treat the whole tank and let the treatment Go away over time? Thanks in advance.

187D0932-ED61-487C-919E-ECE6C3FC1588.jpeg E7564AC7-8832-4DC3-88C2-C6201F505411.jpeg
Click to expand...

What is odd to me is that it looks like one anthias has major issues and the one in the background is clean. That is unusual for a protozoan disease. This is a case where a microscope and skin scrape would be the only way to know what's going on with certainty.

Are the affected fish breathing fast?
Are they still feeding?

There is a chance this is Brooklynella.

Jay
 
Thanks Jay. This has picked off one fish at a time for the past two weeks. I chalked it up to stress due to moving everything into display and moving rocks around in the temporary tank the fish were in (Rubbermaid), and maybe a fish got clipped by a falling rock. Also, Mainly because it wasn’t widespread. Boy lesson learned, as all fish now in a 315 gallon display and will be a real pain to catch.
disease state has been: stop eating, looking slimy/swollen, discoloration, then death. A friend here locally thinks Brook. So scrambling to pick up a couple QT systems today, and figure out best way to treat.
 
Ecoscape Reef Rock
SaracensRugby said:
Thanks Jay. This has picked off one fish at a time for the past two weeks. I chalked it up to stress due to moving everything into display and moving rocks around in the temporary tank the fish were in (Rubbermaid), and maybe a fish got clipped by a falling rock. Also, Mainly because it wasn’t widespread. Boy lesson learned, as all fish now in a 315 gallon display and will be a real pain to catch.
disease state has been: stop eating, looking slimy/swollen, discoloration, then death. A friend here locally thinks Brook. So scrambling to pick up a couple QT systems today, and figure out best way to treat.
Click to expand...

I can't rule out Brooklynella and not much else really comes to mind. Treating that is tough, especially in a display. Formalin, in a treatment tank works best. Some people report Ruby Reef Rally Pro to have worked in a display, but I have not tried that myself.

Jay
 
thanks. I got a 45 and 20 long for QT, will drain half of the tank to catch them, and keep the reef fallow for 45 days. Talking to a disease guy here in Chicago at a LFS, he "thinks" it could have been some wild protozoa I got from the live rock from the ocean (company, not taken from ocean:)). I will give a freshwater bath, treat with copper for a couple weeks, and keep fingers crossed. If there is anything else you think I should do, let me know. I have prazi in case, since it is cheap, but not sure it applies in this case.
On a positive note, I got a great shipment from IPSF with all diff types of pods, chaeto type stuff, cuc, mud, sand, corraline, etc. My refugium will be great once I get through this. Also hopes it helps to add biodiversity/stability over the next few months as things mature.
 
@Jay Hemdal I believe it is flukes. I have been watching my fish pretty close, and some are now breathing with mouths open, and scratching against rocks. I caught every fish except one in the display and they are being treated with copper; I read that you can dose Prazi in the display, so two questions:

1. How would you proceed? Treat display with prazi?
2. Most fish are in two diff QT tanks being treated with copper. Should I do 100% water changes in those and treat those with prazi?
3. Given scenario, when would you put everything back in the display? Couple weeks after treatment/improvement, or wait the full 45 days to be sure?

Thanks in advance!
 
WWC
SaracensRugby said:
@Jay Hemdal I believe it is flukes. I have been watching my fish pretty close, and some are now breathing with mouths open, and scratching against rocks. I caught every fish except one in the display and they are being treated with copper; I read that you can dose Prazi in the display, so two questions:

1. How would you proceed? Treat display with prazi?
2. Most fish are in two diff QT tanks being treated with copper. Should I do 100% water changes in those and treat those with prazi?
3. Given scenario, when would you put everything back in the display? Couple weeks after treatment/improvement, or wait the full 45 days to be sure?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

Really, the only thing that was suggesting flukes here was the extended timeline. Can you post a short video of how the fish look now?

What copper are you using? You can treat coppersafe or copper power with prazi in most cases.

The white lesions in the first photo of the anthias aren't flukes...flukes are invisible really. You sometimes see the damage that they do; scale damage, fin erosion and secondary bacterial infections. The latter could be what is showing in that anthias.

Jay
 
I noticed the one anthia left in the DT scraping against the rocks periodically. I also noticed my yellow tang (no visible signs) scraping in QT, and now he is flashing around a bunch Of course he/she didn’t do scraping in attached videos. The male anthia has had cloudy eye for some time. I am
Using copper power. Thanks in advance! I should say that I am not going to put them back into the display anytime soon, before issues resolved, that was a rash thought. I might dose prazi and copper power for the next couple weeks and see how it goes.




 
Last edited:
SaracensRugby said:
I noticed the one anthia left in the DT scraping against the rocks periodically. I also noticed my yellow tang (no visible signs) scraping in QT, and now he is flashing around a bunch Of course he/she didn’t do scraping in attached videos. The male anthia has had cloudy eye for some time. I am
Using copper power. Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

O.K., I watched all of the videos....the only thing that seems clear to me is that one clownfish looks like it has Brooklynella. The anthias breathing hard could also have it. That the fish that don't get Brook as easily look better (foxface and tangs) keeps pushing me towards that diagnosis. Without a microscope and a skin scrape, there is no way to be 100% on that though!

Neither copper or prazi will help if this is Brook.
I want to call in the rest of the team to get more eyes on this: #fishmedic

Managing ammonia in that QT is going to be a challenge!

Jay
 
SaracensRugby said:
thanks. I got a 45 and 20 long for QT, will drain half of the tank to catch them, and keep the reef fallow for 45 days. Talking to a disease guy here in Chicago at a LFS, he "thinks" it could have been some wild protozoa I got from the live rock from the ocean (company, not taken from ocean:)). I will give a freshwater bath, treat with copper for a couple weeks, and keep fingers crossed. If there is anything else you think I should do, let me know. I have prazi in case, since it is cheap, but not sure it applies in this case.
On a positive note, I got a great shipment from IPSF with all diff types of pods, chaeto type stuff, cuc, mud, sand, corraline, etc. My refugium will be great once I get through this. Also hopes it helps to add biodiversity/stability over the next few months as things mature.
Click to expand...
I believe it is 76 days fallow for the full lifespan to run out.
 
Thanks. I do not plan on treating with formalin, due to the carcinogenic nature of that product with humans, will just cut my losses unfortunately if its that route. If there is something that doesn't have carcinogens in it for brook, I am all ears. Yes, I am going to do 100% water changes every 2 days, which is a real, real pain. Would you put some of the anthias that are breathing heavy in with the clown that looks in rough shape? I don't want to push them all towards more brook, but have limited options given 2 QT's and a display with one pesky guy left in there. I lost an anthia in the display in 2 days time: whitish spots and crusty like the clown, went downhill pretty quick relative to the others.
 
Top Shelf Aquatics
https://youtu.be/wojM0RMXYF4
Here are a couple links. Thanks for the further thoughts on Brook. I might see if I can get some stuff to treat, and get a hazmat suit so treat everything in my garage. The third video is best example on the clown.
 
Top Shelf Aquatics
SaracensRugby said:
Thanks. I do not plan on treating with formalin, due to the carcinogenic nature of that product with humans, will just cut my losses unfortunately if its that route. If there is something that doesn't have carcinogens in it for brook, I am all ears. Yes, I am going to do 100% water changes every 2 days, which is a real, real pain. Would you put some of the anthias that are breathing heavy in with the clown that looks in rough shape? I don't want to push them all towards more brook, but have limited options given 2 QT's and a display with one pesky guy left in there. I lost an anthia in the display in 2 days time: whitish spots and crusty like the clown, went downhill pretty quick relative to the others.
Click to expand...


You can try paraguard and use gloves. That worked for a case of brook I treated.


PS for ammonia, get a biosponge in a hob filter or similar and dump a big ol' bottle of cycling bacteria in. Sponge filters also work.
 

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