What is this spot?

Nasabeau · Nov 10, 2020

first noticed it this evening. pictures tell you everything I know about it. just showed up, never seen anything going on there before

Nasabeau · Nov 10, 2020

so a little more clarification, I am talking about the greyish spot above the Coral Beauty Angelfish's eye. I've had the CBA about 2 weeks. I did just introduce a royal gramma a few days ago, I'm not sure the CBA knows he's there yet. if he does, he hasn't shown it. almost wonder if the gramma is too small for him to care about. I also did do a water change today, using RODI mixed with instant ocean. my params look good, no ammonia or nitrite, nitrate is low. I also did just add an HOB skimmer that I bought second hand today, but I have doubts that a disease would have shown up that quickly. is it possible he hit a rock and just scraped his head? or is this something more sinister? what should I do in any case? do I wait to see if it gets better on its own?

Edit: I've turned off the skimmer in case it is somehow microbubbles or something
Edit 2: he is not behaving differently

Jay Hemdal · Nov 10, 2020

I would turn the skimmer back on, that helps with gas exchange .
Did the CB go through any quarantine treatment? While that spot could be just a bump, it could also be a reaction to flukes which CB are prone to.
Jay

Nasabeau · Nov 10, 2020

Jay Hemdal said:
I would turn the skimmer back on, that helps with gas exchange .
Did the CB go through any quarantine treatment? While that spot could be just a bump, it could also be a reaction to flukes which CB are prone to.
Jay

my lfs will quarantine fish for you if you don't have a qt tank, so he was quarantined at the store for two weeks, but otherwise he was unquarantined. I know, bad practice. this morning the angel seems like he can't get off the ground, just kind of swimming while touching the sand bed. he just woke up so this may mean nothing but figured worth mentioning. might be related.

Edit: is there anything I should be watching for if it is flukes? the spot looks exactly the same this morning
Edit 2: he seems to be moving better, still not entirely himself but starting to move up and down a little. I think he may have gotten a microbubble in his swim bladder. I had turned the skimmer back on last night, but then woke up to find a TON of microbubbles in the tank. will be picking up something to deal with that asap. skimmer is back off for now.

Jay Hemdal · Nov 10, 2020

Supersaturation is tricky, bubbles from a skimmer actually work to reduce that. It’s the unseen dissolved gasses that are deadly. Watch for any air leaks on the suction side of a pump, or a sump that drops too low and sucks air. This saturated gas comes out of solution in the fish’s bloodstream and most often shows up in the gills eyes and fins, not the air bladder.
Jay

Nasabeau · Nov 10, 2020

Jay Hemdal said:
Supersaturation is tricky, bubbles from a skimmer actually work to reduce that. It’s the unseen dissolved gasses that are deadly. Watch for any air leaks on the suction side of a pump, or a sump that drops too low and sucks air. This saturated gas comes out of solution in the fish’s bloodstream and most often shows up in the gills eyes and fins, not the air bladder.
Jay

I guess I don't understand what you mean by air leaks on the suction side. I have a canister filter and added a HOB skimmer (reef octopus classic 90), and as far as I'm aware, the pump is sucking straight air through the venturi (its just a straight air intake tube elevated above the water line to prevent backflow). so, I guess maybe he was just a little slow waking up this morning? what do I look for if it is flukes? what should I be doing for the fish right now (I know this is not veterinary advice, its more 'from an experienced reefer to a newbie, what would you be doing if it was your fish')... should I be contacting a vet?

Edit: Is there any chance this is Head and Lateral Line Erosion? Is that even something Marine fish get?

Nasabeau · Nov 10, 2020

update, he is behaving normally now, I think he was just a little slow (or I was more attentive when he was) waking up. I normally turn the room lights on and leave them for a few minutes before turning on the tank light so as not to shock them, but I know the clowns take a good half hour to actually get up and going, and I do not see the gramma out of his cave for a solid hour after the lights come on, so maybe I just haven't noticed the CBA doing his wakeup thing before. the skimmer is still off until I can get a better bubble catcher (they've been doing okay without it till now, another few hours is probably fine) because even if the bubbles aren't causing medical problems, they do make the tank hazy and unpleasant to look at, I cant imagine its fun to swim around in. I am planning to just keep an eye on his head and see if it gets any worse

Jay Hemdal · Nov 10, 2020

Nasabeau said:
I guess I don't understand what you mean by air leaks on the suction side. I have a canister filter and added a HOB skimmer (reef octopus classic 90), and as far as I'm aware, the pump is sucking straight air through the venturi (its just a straight air intake tube elevated above the water line to prevent backflow). so, I guess maybe he was just a little slow waking up this morning? what do I look for if it is flukes? what should I be doing for the fish right now (I know this is not veterinary advice, its more 'from an experienced reefer to a newbie, what would you be doing if it was your fish')... should I be contacting a vet?

Edit: Is there any chance this is Head and Lateral Line Erosion? Is that even something Marine fish get?

Well, that isn’t head and lateral line erosion.

Jay

Jay Hemdal · Nov 10, 2020

Nasabeau said:
update, he is behaving normally now, I think he was just a little slow (or I was more attentive when he was) waking up. I normally turn the room lights on and leave them for a few minutes before turning on the tank light so as not to shock them, but I know the clowns take a good half hour to actually get up and going, and I do not see the gramma out of his cave for a solid hour after the lights come on, so maybe I just haven't noticed the CBA doing his wakeup thing before. the skimmer is still off until I can get a better bubble catcher (they've been doing okay without it till now, another few hours is probably fine) because even if the bubbles aren't causing medical problems, they do make the tank hazy and unpleasant to look at, I cant imagine its fun to swim around in. I am planning to just keep an eye on his head and see if it gets any worse

The big test is to see if the angel is eating normally, if so, then I would just watch it for now. If it’s appetite has reduced , that is cause for concern.
Jay

Nasabeau · Nov 10, 2020

Jay Hemdal said:
The big test is to see if the angel is eating normally, if so, then I would just watch it for now. If it’s appetite has reduced , that is cause for concern.
Jay

will feed them in a little bit and report my findings. he was eating fine last night

Nasabeau · Nov 10, 2020

update, he is eating fine, swimming around fine, seems happy and the spot has not gotten bigger. I'm going to keep an eye on it and just assume he got a bump

Nasabeau · Nov 12, 2020

Update, its getting smaller, he's still acting fine. I think he just bumped his head. thank you for helping me out! @Jay Hemdal

Edit: I have also moved what I believe to be the offending rock. my aquascape had a long stretch of tank to build up speed with a rock at the end. I had noticed the fish taking that path a lot. I have moved that rock so the path is a straight shot from glass to glass, which has also caused the fish to spread out a little, which is nice. that's a whole other problem I've been having. got a 75 gallon tank and all four fish want to spend all their time in one corner

vetteguy53081 · Nov 12, 2020

I think it is a scrape. As Jay mentioned- Diet is important and helps with healing and immunity system health.

Nasabeau · Nov 12, 2020

vetteguy53081 said:
I think it is a scrape. As Jay mentioned- Diet is important and helps with healing and immunity system health.

What I've been doing is I have a food cup, I take a small amount of water from the tank, throw in a pinch of pellets and 1/2-1/4 brick of frozen food (assorted between algea, Myisis shrimp, brine shrimp, that kind of stuff, its the SF bay marine variety pack) thawing it, mixing it all up and dumping it back. the coral is eating more than his fair share of the frozen food but haven't seen him touch the pellets. I also have a diatom bloom going on right now and he just goes to town eating that too. I hope I'm not doing anything wrong there

vetteguy53081 · Nov 12, 2020

Nasabeau said:
What I've been doing is I have a food cup, I take a small amount of water from the tank, throw in a pinch of pellets and 1/2-1/4 brick of frozen food (assorted between algea, Myisis shrimp, brine shrimp, that kind of stuff, its the SF bay marine variety pack) thawing it, mixing it all up and dumping it back. the coral is eating more than his fair share of the frozen food but haven't seen him touch the pellets. I also have a diatom bloom going on right now and he just goes to town eating that too. I hope I'm not doing anything wrong there

recommended:
Formula 2 flake and frozen
mysis shrimp
small plankton
LRS fish frenxy
Spirulina brine shrimp

Add garlic extract and selcon alternatting a couple of days a week to the foods

Nasabeau · Nov 12, 2020

vetteguy53081 said:
recommended:
Formula 2 flake and frozen
mysis shrimp
small plankton
LRS fish frenxy
Spirulina brine shrimp

Add garlic extract and selcon alternatting a couple of days a week to the foods

so looking at my frozen food, I do have mysis shrimp, plankton, and brine shrimp in the blocks so I guess that is good