What killed my Scopas tang?

[bellatrixxie]

Hey all. I’m hoping someone will be able to identify what has killed 2 of my Scopas tang. Both have been in quarantine for 26 days (since I got them) being treated with Paraguard to try to prevent disease but it seems it hasn't been successful. They have been healthy the entire time except for about 2-3 days ago when I noticed them breathing heavily. I’ve attached some photos to try to get an ID on what killed them so I can learn from it and not have this happen again. Thanks in advance.

 

[Jekyl]

Welcome to R2R! I'm sure one of the disease experts will chime in soon.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Sorry - just seeing this now.

Are any other fish in the tank left alive?
The one scopas has a fringed fin, was it being picked on?
Did both scopas die within a short time frame?
Can you rule out all water quality issues?

I'm not a huge fan of Paraguard in marine systems, I've never gotten it to work, although it does have some benefit in treating freshwater fish. Coppersafe is a better choice.

Jay

 

[bellatrixxie]

Sorry - just seeing this now.

Are any other fish in the tank left alive?
The one scopas has a fringed fin, was it being picked on?
Did both scopas die within a short time frame?
Can you rule out all water quality issues?

I'm not a huge fan of Paraguard in marine systems, I've never gotten it to work, although it does have some benefit in treating freshwater fish. Coppersafe is a better choice.

Jay

Thanks for the reply! The qt tank has continually been cycled for about 9 months now (I keep it going and feed the tank even when there are no fish in it and always keep extra media in my main sump to transfer over when fish go into qt). There is 1 Scopas still alive in the qt tank.
To rule out water quality issues:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Ph: 7.9
DKh: 8
Salinity: 1.02 (28ppt)

I found both at the same time but checked on them before bed and both were fine didn’t see any issues but in the morning both were dead. I did notice some tang aggression amongst the 3 of them but it was pretty evenly spread and nothing “deadly” as I have seen in the past where they’re on a mission to eliminate.
I’ve used Paraguard in the past for brook and it worked really well but maybe I’ll try coppersafe next time.
Do you think maybe the remaining Scopas killed the other 2?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks for the reply! The qt tank has continually been cycled for about 9 months now (I keep it going and feed the tank even when there are no fish in it and always keep extra media in my main sump to transfer over when fish go into qt). There is 1 Scopas still alive in the qt tank.
To rule out water quality issues:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Ph: 7.9
DKh: 8
Salinity: 1.02 (28ppt)

I found both at the same time but checked on them before bed and both were fine didn’t see any issues but in the morning both were dead. I did notice some tang aggression amongst the 3 of them but it was pretty evenly spread and nothing “deadly” as I have seen in the past where they’re on a mission to eliminate.
I’ve used Paraguard in the past for brook and it worked really well but maybe I’ll try coppersafe next time.
Do you think maybe the remaining Scopas killed the other 2?

Unlikely that the remaining scopas outright killed the other two. However, the rapid breathing seems to point to a gill disease (like velvet) and those kill quickly and move through the whole population, so tough to explain why one fish remains. Is it breathing/feeding normally? Have you considered trying prazipro for flukes? Some fluke infestations can show as rapid breathing and tattered fins

Paraguard does have some use against Brooklynella, just not ich or velvet, so is less effective as a preventative quarantine.

Jay

 

[bellatrixxie]

Unlikely that the remaining scopas outright killed the other two. However, the rapid breathing seems to point to a gill disease (like velvet) and those kill quickly and move through the whole population, so tough to explain why one fish remains. Is it breathing/feeding normally? Have you considered trying prazipro for flukes? Some fluke infestations can show as rapid breathing and tattered fins

Paraguard does have some use against Brooklynella, just not ich or velvet, so is less effective as a preventative quarantine.

Jay

Ok thanks for the info on the Paraguard. As for the remaining Scopas, It does seem to be breathing normally now and is still eating and swimming around but it too has tattered fins like the 2 dead ones did. I do have some prazipro, should I start a treatment round just in case it is flukes? In the future, would you recommend starting off a qt with prazipro first and then coppersafe or coppersafe and then prazipro? Or would coppersafe be an all-arounder?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Ok thanks for the info on the Paraguard. As for the remaining Scopas, It does seem to be breathing normally now and is still eating and swimming around but it too has tattered fins like the 2 dead ones did. I do have some prazipro, should I start a treatment round just in case it is flukes? In the future, would you recommend starting off a qt with prazipro first and then coppersafe or coppersafe and then prazipro? Or would coppersafe be an all-arounder?

I would dose prazi again, 7 to 10 days after the first dose.
I always treat with copper before prazi as protozoan diseases are more common and kill faster than flukes do.
Jay

 

[Uncle99]

I’m hoping that your QT is big.
3 of the same tangs in a QT less than 30g would make be nervous.
Aggression appears obvious with those tattered fins which may have left the fish in a weakened state.

I note you have had a similar problem about two weeks ago with two clowns….any chance the tanks became cross-contaminated?

 

[bellatrixxie]

I’m hoping that your QT is big.
3 of the same tangs in a QT less than 30g would make be nervous.
Aggression appears obvious with those tattered fins which may have left the fish in a weakened state.

I note you have had a similar problem about two weeks ago with two clowns….any chance the tanks became cross-contaminated?

The qt is 75 gallons at least for now. (will be 120 once my new dt arrives and old dt gets turned into qt). The post about the clowns was last year They had brook which I was able to treat successfully with Paraguard.

 

[Uncle99]

The qt is 75 gallons at least for now. (will be 120 once my new dt arrives and old dt gets turned into qt). The post about the clowns was last year They had brook which I was able to treat successfully with Paraguard.

Sorry, your right that’s too long ago.
More than enough room (iam jealous) with a big QT like that.
I’ve never kept any more than one of the same tang in my 180g.
It’s always a great moment in time when you save fish!

I’ve never use any medication of new arrivals in QT unless I have a reason to do so. I’ve never been a believer of the general cure kinda stuff.

If they go in and act, swim, breath, and eat consistently, for 21 days, I just increase the salinity to DT over the final 7.

I did have to Hypo once, say 15 years ago.

Sorry for your loss.

 

[bellatrixxie]

Sorry, your right that’s too long ago.
More than enough room (iam jealous) with a big QT like that.
I’ve never kept any more than one of the same tang in my 180g.
It’s always a great moment in time when you save fish!

I’ve never use any medication of new arrivals in QT unless I have a reason to do so. I’ve never been a believer of the general cure kinda stuff.

If they go in and act, swim, breath, and eat consistently, for 21 days, I just increase the salinity to DT over the final 7.

I did have to Hypo once, say 15 years ago.

Sorry for your loss.

Great point. I guess I’m just so disheartened at the thought of losing a fish and just downright sad by actually losing fish that my brain automatically goes to “you better cure everything just in case” mode. It’s a good point to observe first and then act when I notice something. Definitely helps to have a more definitive plan for treatment now tho. Thanks to everyone for the advice. Really appreciate it.
Also I think l’ve accepted that I’m just going to have to keep only 1 of a tang of the same species now. Thanks for that.

 

[Uncle99]

Great point. I guess I’m just so disheartened at the thought of losing a fish and just downright sad by actually losing fish that my brain automatically goes to “you better cure everything just in case” mode. It’s a good point to observe first and then act when I notice something. Definitely helps to have a more definitive plan for treatment now tho. Thanks to everyone for the advice. Really appreciate it.
Also I think l’ve accepted that I’m just going to have to keep only 1 of a tang of the same species now. Thanks for that.

This cure everything just in case is rampant everywhere these days in this hobby.

So we get a fish that’s already stressed, then add them to a stressful QT, throw some stuff at them which I have really no idea what it is actually cause I’m not a vet, then, transfer them again to DT for some more stress……..I just don’t get the logic here?

Love your idea of the one of each tang. I’ve done this in many systems and my own as well. Works well.

What I found helped a lot when adding tangs is add at the same time to the DT and each additional add, I use a clear fish trap box from lights on to lights off, then I release. That gave me a day of observation of the social interaction to expect and the fish, a safe chance to meet the neighbors.

It sad to lose a fish, but each time we become better at our hobby.

But the successes we get are oh so great as well.

Good luck.

 

[bellatrixxie]

This cure everything just in case is rampant everywhere these days in this hobby.

So we get a fish that’s already stressed, then add them to a stressful QT, throw some stuff at them which I have really no idea what it is actually cause I’m not a vet, then, transfer them again to DT for some more stress……..I just don’t get the logic here?

Love your idea of the one of each tang. I’ve done this in many systems and my own as well. Works well.

What I found helped a lot when adding tangs is add at the same time to the DT and each additional add, I use a clear fish trap box from lights on to lights off, then I release. That gave me a day of observation of the social interaction to expect and the fish, a safe chance to meet the neighbors.

It sad to lose a fish, but each time we become better at our hobby.

But the successes we get are oh so great as well.

Good luck.

Thanks so much! Will definitely do that. Awesome tank btw

 

[Uncle99]

Thank you, I appreciate that.
Best of luck going forward!