What makes acropora need an established or older tank?

[pokegirl1332]

Thank you for all the opinions and advice dually noted. I used some rock from my old tank for this as well actually majority but it did dry out a bit before hand so not sure if that’s of any benefit. I’m going to try the birds nest and put it back in the big tank if not successful. The parameters seem pretty stable in the 30g but it is a relatively new tank so keeping up with the dosing for now and starting to get some coralline growth from my old rocks.

 

[Potatohead]

I think people need to clarify what they mean by 'new tank'.

If that new tank has mostly old rock that was transferred during a tank upgrade, sure you can probably grow acros pretty quickly.

However if someone says they started a new tank with dry rock or Marco rock and has thriving acros after a month?

 

[Phildago]

Nothing

 

[MattL22]

They don't.

"Established tank" is code for 'ReefKeeper who has figured out chemistry and can keep a tank properly dosed and keep alive enough consumers so that waste is not a significant issue, and understands enough about coral biology to understand what stressed animals are communicating'


Moving water from an old tank to a new tank doesn't get you anything - move rock.

really liked your point about keeping alive enough consumers so that waste not a big issue agree 100% and don’t see it talked about that often

 

[Deitz]

From a scientific point of view, I don’t know if this article or post does more harm than good?

I think or believe, because of my time in this hobby, it all comes down to dumb luck. I say dumb luck because very few hobbyist actually setup 20 or so tanks to prove weather or not their ideas are correct or true. I say dumb luck because it’s luck that played its part when you noticed a change in your system an acted on it so the failure never came to pass. I love Randy Holmes, but with all the chemistry known in this world, and all of the articles written by different people, you have to ask yourself a very important question. Did they just set this tank up, or are these observations coming from an established system, and is this their alkalinity consumption, or just their calcium up take?

Now we already know that flow and lightning are necessary. That fact has been proven time and time again without fail, but the best way I can explain success in the realm of acros, is comparing it to the train in Back to the Future III. Each time they added a specific log, the train boosted violently with more speed. The logs could be bacteria blooms, pod establishments, cheato growing, coralline algae growth, or new equipment that allows you to make new observations. It doesn’t really matter what gets added first or how fast. The ultimate goal is 88 miles an hour.

So can you grow acros in 3 months or day one in a sterile setup? I believe some people can. Do you have to wait to have a established aquarium to keep acros? I believe some people like me have to. I just think it’s easier. Just make good observations and pay attention to your live stock, and keep in mind, there’s more than one way to skin a kitten.

 

[Garf]

I’m pinning my hopes on it needs “An established or older reefer” . My tank is new and I’m going for it.

 

[Brad Montgomery]

This is all super helpful thanks I’m definitely not new to reefing but haven’t kept much successfully long term other than some zoas yuumas and acans so it seems it’s about the bacteria population and stability combined the coralline seems too be a good rule of thumb appreciate all the advice I got a birds nest and styli from a friend I want to put in the new tank seems to be doing well also any recommendations on the parameters you guys have had success with it stick with baseline general recommendations seems alkalinity is more important than I initially thought been doing salt water for 10 years but only coral for maybe 4-5 on and off

 

[Brad Montgomery]

If you can grow coralline you can grow acropora it's that simple they have the same demands and requirements! Your definitely going to need a dosing pump and that is probably the hardest to get dialed in. Test your alkalinity calcium and magnesium often to get your elements dialed in. Of the 3 Alkalinity stability is above all. I've got mine dialed in so it remains constant all day at 9dkh I choose 9 because its about the middle so i can have swings up and down without issues and personally ive only had issues above 12 and below 6 they can handle swings many may not be happy but most problems occur out of range. Stability is key with everything mentioned above. If something happens dont look at yesterday or a few days ago but rather a week 2 or 3 prior as that was what probably influenced the problem.

 

[EMeyer]

If something happens dont look at yesterday or a few days ago but rather a week 2 or 3 prior as that was what probably influenced the problem.

This. This is probably the most challenging aspect of keeping acros.

When you see a problem with acros, its not because of what you did today, its because of what happened 2 weeks ago. This can make identifying the cause difficult without really good record keeping.

 

[pokegirl1332]

This. This is probably the most challenging aspect of keeping acros.

When you see a problem with acros, its not because of what you did today, its because of what happened 2 weeks ago. This can make identifying the cause difficult without really good record keeping.

Wow didn’t realize they took that long to react but makes some sense.

 

[Madonia]

They don't.

"Established tank" is code for 'ReefKeeper who has figured out chemistry and can keep a tank properly dosed and keep alive enough consumers so that waste is not a significant issue, and understands enough about coral biology to understand what stressed animals are communicating'


Moving water from an old tank to a new tank doesn't get you anything - move rock.

This!!!!!

 

[Madonia]

my new tank is 2.5 months old. I didn’t seed with rock/media from my old tank (my old tank had pest algae and a few visible aptasia). I only used bacteria in a bottle. Also used a lot (ALOT) of testing reagents lol.

water changes, some GFO and carbon as needed. Light feedings. Clean filter socks. Flow. Good lighting (not too strong to start). And consistent alk/ca/mag dosing schedule.

now have coralline taking over and my acros are encrusting on the rocks at 2.5 months.

it just so happens that old tanks are acro friendly because there’s less of a chance for pollutant spikes and other parameter swings. Biological filtration is much stronger and the tank is generally able to tolerate a lot more. Takes a while for ‘live rock’ to truly ‘come alive’

i took the risk adding in acros so quickly (knowingly) but I am making up for the lack of stability with vigorous testing and acute interventions if need be.

 

[Stigigemla]

Acropora is the largest coral genus and they are living at the surface or down to at least 70 feet. So they have very different demands. I believe the species that stand rain in low tide are not so sensitive for water changes but they need a lot of light. Species living in more than 30 feet depth probably are much more sensitive for water values changing.

Live rock has a community of worms and copepods and others that are constantly cleaning the rock. Without these animals the stone will clog full of detritus in a year or two and cause a crash.
There are numerous threads on this subject here on R2R.

 

[hans4811]

I think in the end it can be very tank specific. I have had success with acro's in the past on my old established rock. I recall buying rock that came direct from the reef wrapped in newsprint and the biodiversity was amazing on it. Lots of sponge and macro algae including some pests but my corals would thrive after no time. I recently (2 years ago) set up with all new man made rock. I run dosers with esv, good equipment and dedicated maintenance. All parameters kept spot on and testing routinely. I could keep any LPS and softy but could not get acros to take. I spent multitudes of hours researching and finally found others that were having the same issue. When my tank hit the close to 2 year mark I was finally able to get acros to do well. Not sure what the missing piece of the puzzle was but my thoughts are that there were some missing bacteria or biodiversity with this man made rock. Tank is doing great now..... this is just my experience. Cheers

This was my experience as well. Have a tank thats 2 yrs old, stable params for the past year, but couldnt get acros to live to save my life. wasted 100s of dollars trying. just recently got an acro austera to finally take, seeing polyp extension for the first time ! What changed...i have no idea ...

 

[Waters]

I added all of my new SPS frags within a couple of weeks of rebooting my reef with all dry rock without any issues. Tank (and SPS) have all been growing for almost 9 months now.

 

[FishTruck]

If you are struggling to maintain the color and health of acros... and all of your parameters seem stable and perfect... and your tank is 6 months old - you are not alone - but probably in the norm. Many reefers will tell you that the best thing to do is wait it out and let your tank (and you) mature to 12 months or longer. Let's agree that sometimes there is more going on that what you can measure (the microbiome for example).

Of course - a reefer is just as likely to find out that they were doing something wrong during that waiting period.

What's "necessary" varies from tank to tank - but patience always helps in the end.

 

[ScottB]

Maybe 1 in 1000 reefers can pull off a dry rock start and acropora after a few months. If you have a few tens of millions of dollars, you too can race against Lewis Hamilton. Good luck.

Now add a truckload of real live rock and the odds shift in a big way as long as you know how it all works.

 

[Spkarim]

I started off with dry rock, and tried add acros early first few months against better judgement, they died quickly.

It took about 8 months to sort out stable parameters, a GFO reactor, a kalk ATO and finally lots of coralline algae.

I think running rowaphos helped a lot.

now things are doing well.

 

[G Santana]

There is a few key factors to consider , what has work for me having stable parameter is fundamental , specially alkalinity. A blanket of light and good strong flow is also key. and third, keeping within range of phosphates and nitrates, if you can keep them stable even better. Once that coraline algae appears and starts to multiply without dying is a good indication you are going the right direction.

Sound advice. Years ago I failed miserably initially as I rushed into stocking a young tank. However, once coraline algae took hold, my fortune changed. Now I didn't know it then, but I know now stability was and is key.
Slow and steady.

 

[92Miata]

I think people need to clarify what they mean by 'new tank'.

If that new tank has mostly old rock that was transferred during a tank upgrade, sure you can probably grow acros pretty quickly.

However if someone says they started a new tank with dry rock or Marco rock and has thriving acros after a month?

Growing acros with dry rock a month in isn't hard.

Growing acros in a completely bare tank with no rock (unlit biomedia in sump) at a month is easier.

What's hard is keeping algae at bay with the lack of competition on the rock surface - dry rock is a fantastic substrate for hair algae(and other nuisances) - and it will quickly overwhelm the corals if you don't do frequent, heavy manual removal.

The algae issue gets compounded by people giving the nonsense reasoning that "the algae is eating nutrients faster than you can measure it" - leading to the reefkeeper being told to drive down nutrients when they're already low - leading to dead corals and an even better environment for nuisance animals.

Poor quality rock surface is almost always the issue here - and the only way to fix that is to cover up the rock surface with desirable organisms like coral and coraline.

There is so much awful advice given in this hobby by well meeting people who simply do not understand why reef tanks go through the phases that they do. Dry rock tanks are very different than live rock tanks - because live rock tanks start with a huge community of animals that eat nitrogen and phosphorus and compete for surfaces with nuisance algaes. Coraline is hugely valuable here.