What Needs The Most Improvement In The Hobby?

[madducks42]

Feels like you can compare it somewhat to horticultural clones of bred and selected flowers and plants. That horticultural variety can look very different from the wild variety but is still the same species. To set it apart from the wild one you give it another name, a "Cultivar" and put that after the species name and within single quotes - Acropora tenuis 'Homewrecker' or Acropora tenuis 'Walt Disney' for example.

I would love it so much if this is how it worked in this hobby! One of my other major hobbies is breeding boa constrictors and in that community scientific names are always used along with locale information sometimes. Since getting into reefing one of the things I've struggled with the most is keeping track of coral names, it's confusing when people just use common names instead of what the coral actually is.

 

[ReefBeta]

I would love it so much if this is how it worked in this hobby! One of my other major hobbies is breeding boa constrictors and in that community scientific names are always used along with locale information sometimes. Since getting into reefing one of the things I've struggled with the most is keeping track of coral names, it's confusing when people just use common names instead of what the coral actually is.

Scientific name is not too useful for sticks though, isn't it? Just acropora millipora alone comes with rainbows of colors, we gonna tell them apart somehow...

 

[madducks42]

Scientific name is not too useful for sticks though, isn't it? Just acropora millipora alone comes with rainbows of colors, we gonna tell them apart somehow...

Yeah but people posting a random picture of a coral and calling it, “Bubblegum Express” isn’t all that helpful, lol. If the hobby had some sort of standing naming convention like “acropora millipora, bubblegum express” that would be really helpful.

 

[ReefBeta]

Yeah but people posting a random picture of a coral and calling it, “Bubblegum Express” isn’t all that helpful, lol. If the hobby had some sort of standing naming convention like “acropora millipora, bubblegum express” that would be really helpful.

Totally agree. It always took me some detective work to figure out what species is by common name. Worse is that some are never identified ever since collected.

 

[Mandelstam]

Scientific name is not too useful for sticks though, isn't it? Just acropora millipora alone comes with rainbows of colors, we gonna tell them apart somehow...

Yeah but people posting a random picture of a coral and calling it, “Bubblegum Express” isn’t all that helpful, lol. If the hobby had some sort of standing naming convention like “acropora millipora, bubblegum express” that would be really helpful.

Exactly, we need both the scientific name AND the specific strain/clone/variety. Naming conventions that does just that already exists in other fields, it's just a matter of implementing it.

Having an organization that officially keeps track of all the varieties and where you have to register a new one would be even better. There you could look up information about the strain, collection area, breeder, detailed information about identifying it and separating it from other strains, etc, etc.

 

[reefwiser]

Oh, I so remember the internet before Google become popular. Back even when Yahoo was THE search engine, looking for information on the internet is pain in the butt compare to current time. I remember that so well that, looking at a website with no structured, as it still lives in the 90s, feels just like meeting my ex that I wish I would not ever meet again.

Do you know why Google overtook Yahoo and basically become THE internet nowadays? It was because Google believe easy and accurate search is essential to the Internet, while Yahoo's CEO laughed at the idea that "why would people want accurate search"

The major reason for that site is unreadable is though, without reading the whole page, which most of the time is very long, I won't even know if it will give me the answer I'm looking for. I did couple times do try to read into it, and end up finding out that's not the page I need, and half an hour is gone. Honestly, I don't have the time for this kind of research. I'm keeping a hobby here, not researching for my PhD thesis. Also the format of their page does not make reading easier. Answers and questions are all mixed up together, and sometimes there are article kind of content amount them too. If a website put absolutely no effort in making its page at least readable, then it deserves to get no reads. It's just like publish a book with no format, with all words scramble together.



On one hand, we want people to learn more, but on the other hand, we're not making the learning easy. There are often times when new people come to ask questions, then the responses flame them for asking the questions that have been answered many times, and not using the search function. I don't think it's fair to accuse users for not using search when the search functions on most forums, as well as the wetwebmedia, were so inaccurate and inefficient.

Sound like you need to be in charge of organizing all the info for everyone [emoji3] I go out and find the info back before the internet I would go to the main library and use microreader to read published articles on corals and print the ones I needed out. I never flame a new person I have been answering questions for hobbyist since the Usenet days and was a mod on Fishnet.

 

[Krzydmnd]

Sound like you need to be in charge of organizing all the info for everyone [emoji3] I go out and find the info back before the internet I would go to the main library and use microreader to read published articles on corals and print the ones I needed out. I never flame a new person I have been answering questions for hobbyist since the Usenet days and was a mod on Fishnet.

What is this "before the internet" nonsense you speak of? Some kind of witch doctor, are ya? [emoji23][emoji23]

 

[Paul B]

What is this "before the internet" nonsense you speak of? Some kind of witch doctor, are ya? [emoji23][emoji23]

The internet just came out last Tuesday, I remember when it was a luxury to have a black and white TV.
I used to like to watch Tarzan talking to the Witch Doctor.

 

[reefwiser]

Yes people actually used phones to talk to each other.

 

[Mandelstam]

Oh, I so remember the internet before Google become popular. Back even when Yahoo was THE search engine, looking for information on the internet is pain in the butt compare to current time. I remember that so well that, looking at a website with no structured, as it still lives in the 90s, feels just like meeting my ex that I wish I would not ever meet again.

Do you know why Google overtook Yahoo and basically become THE internet nowadays? It was because Google believe easy and accurate search is essential to the Internet, while Yahoo's CEO laughed at the idea that "why would people want accurate search"

The major reason for that site is unreadable is though, without reading the whole page, which most of the time is very long, I won't even know if it will give me the answer I'm looking for. I did couple times do try to read into it, and end up finding out that's not the page I need, and half an hour is gone. Honestly, I don't have the time for this kind of research. I'm keeping a hobby here, not researching for my PhD thesis. Also the format of their page does not make reading easier. Answers and questions are all mixed up together, and sometimes there are article kind of content amount them too. If a website put absolutely no effort in making its page at least readable, then it deserves to get no reads. It's just like publish a book with no format, with all words scramble together.

On one hand, we want people to learn more, but on the other hand, we're not making the learning easy. There are often times when new people come to ask questions, then the responses flame them for asking the questions that have been answered many times, and not using the search function. I don't think it's fair to accuse users for not using search when the search functions on most forums, as well as the wetwebmedia, were so inaccurate and inefficient.

I love doing research about all my hobbies and for reef keeping I think doing research, both by practice and by reading, is a major part of the hobby. Finding answers from both your own work and from others.

Yesterday I saw a guy on a reefing group on FB make post that basically said: "I want to have a reef tank, tell me what I need to know and how much it will cost". If you only want the quick and easy answers where other people are doing all the hard work of gathering up those answers for you, you probably won't find a lot of help online and on forums.

As for WWM, I'm sure if someone was serious about helping out with lifting that site into the 21st century they would be grateful for the help. There's a link to join the crew on the website.

 

[Shon]

The Hobbyists Themselves!

Who wouldn't want to improve their own knowledge and abilities?

 

[Charterreefer]

Hell yes on the books.

IMO, what needs to change the most is the paradigm of not upsetting people. The internet has brought a ton of stuff, but it has made all contributors equal and the most experienced quietly disappear since they get sick of fighting with the noobies who know it all and get upset when you tell them that they are not right or do not have enough experience.

...this brings us back to books. The publication process vets people for knowledge and experience. There are two things that have hurt the hobby in the last decade and lack the rigor that the publication process offers:
1) The internet rewards the persistent and oftentimes the whiny who like to complain that their three months of non-cycled tanks make them the equal to somebody like Coppolino on the WWW.
2) Manufacturers and retailers using pseudoscience and stuff that they probably know is wrong to sell products. If I see another terrestrial plant stat or study used to sell a reef LED, I might puke. How many folks have fought year-long battles with nutrient issues because of retailer videos showing how awesome and sterile dry/dead rock is.
Read more books.

Totally agree!! I was giving some serious thought to suggesting that a "Classic Reef Keeping" section be started here. A forum for the old timers (long timers)... the well seasoned i.e the elders (not limited to age but more so, time spent in the hobby) and people that read books, to be heard. To "vet" people as you mentioned. To try to cut through all the winners and manufactures and retailers and their biased info. Not high tech but high quality info.
In light of the high tech explosion that seems to be overtaking the hobby, fueled by the profits made that these evergrowing reef tech companies are reaping there is more need to keep this hobby grounded with sound advice.
There, I said it! .
Any thoughts?? That's about as far as I got so far.

 

[jda]

Suggest it to a mod, or put up a poll. A panel of 10-12 people who offer what Dr. Holmes-Farley does to Chemistry would be awesome for general husbandry.

This is neither here nor there... I know for sure that my undergrad, graduate, building a company, selling a company, building another one, etc. was all laid out for me in nice, easy to read steps and I did not have to dig into anything or maybe read something that I was not after. Learning how to learn is a empirical skill that the fast-results, give-it-to-me-now crowd could benefit a lot from. I am glad that some were born lately past the age of microfiche... nobody ever took the wrong microfiche or book home before.

How hard is this to put into Google to get articles on Flukes?

site:wetwebmedia.com flukes

 

[Mark Gray]

I think the Warranty is good one I am generally to lazy to do it but if it comes with a good warranty I like that.
I think I would like to see more coral farming and fish breading places also

 

[Cameron Wise]

Better knowledge at most LFS
And better quality tanks for LESS MONEY

Cough...Cough....Red Sea..Cough

 

[Charterreefer]

Exactly, we need both the scientific name AND the specific strain/clone/variety. Naming conventions that does just that already exists in other fields, it's just a matter of implementing it.

Having an organization that officially keeps track of all the varieties and where you have to register a new one would be even better. There you could look up information about the strain, collection area, breeder, detailed information about identifying it and separating it from other strains, etc, etc.

Genus, species and then it's fantasy name - would be a nice start.

 

[Opus]

I don't think it's that folks aren't willing to write them, just that nobody seems to want to actually buy them. The wonderful Reef Fishes series has at least three written-but-not-published volumes. I will say that writing a book requires real expertise, something a YouTube video does not.

And some of the good books are out of print and very expensive now. I would like to get the Vernon set but when I looked a used set was $600 to $1000. I knew I should have bought them when they came out. Didn't realize they would to out of print so fast.

 

[ca1ore]

And some of the good books are out of print and very expensive now. I would like to get the Vernon set but when I looked a used set was $600 to $1000. I knew I should have bought them when they came out. Didn't realize they would to out of print so fast.

I've got just about all the notable books ..... except that set ...... figures LOL. My absolute favorite is the four volume Modern Coral Reef series.

 

[Paul B]

Totally agree!! I was giving some serious thought to suggesting that a "Classic Reef Keeping" section be started here. A forum for the old timers (long timers)... the well seasoned i.e the elders (not limited to age but more so, time spent in the hobby) and people that read books, to be heard. To "vet" people as you mentioned. To try to cut through all the winners and manufactures and retailers and their biased info. Not high tech but high quality info.
In light of the high tech explosion that seems to be overtaking the hobby, fueled by the profits made that these evergrowing reef tech companies are reaping there is more need to keep this hobby grounded with sound advice.
There, I said it! .
Any thoughts?? That's about as far as I got so far.

The problem I see with this is that us Geezers who were here the day this hobby started in 1971, learned the hard way, years before computers were invented and many of our methods run contradictory to much of the ways things are done now.
I disagree with so much of how people do things today that I rarely try to give advice because of all the negative input from so many people who, (with good intentions) just don't have enough experience or just kept one of a type of fish for a year or two and give advice for it. I have been in the hobby for over 60 years and you wouldn't like the methods I advocate even though almost all my fish only die of old age, my reef is running for 46 years and all my fish are immune.
I have also read almost all the printed books and even wrote one myself and have 2 aquarium related patents.
Even old timers disagree with each other but certainly not as much as Noobs.
OK, Have a great day. I will shut up now.

 

[Charterreefer]

The problem I see with this is that us Geezers who were here the day this hobby started in 1971, learned the hard way, years before computers were invented and many of our methods run contradictory to much of the ways things are done now.
I disagree with so much of how people do things today that I rarely try to give advice because of all the negative input from so many people who, (with good intentions) just don't have enough experience or just kept one of a type of fish for a year or two and give advice for it. I have been in the hobby for over 60 years and you wouldn't like the methods I advocate even though almost all my fish only die of old age, my reef is running for 46 years and all my fish are immune.
I have also read almost all the printed books and even wrote one myself and have 2 aquarium related patents.
Even old timers disagree with each other but certainly not as much as Noobs.
OK, Have a great day. I will shut up now.

I agree with what you say Paul. I believe we need to do something to keep the tried and true methods alive and keep what is becoming a big high tech business from hijacking this wonderful hobby! The Noobs need to know the difference between the proven robust methods and what is just anecdotal opinion generated to sell expensive products. We need to insure that this hobby can continue to grow in a healthy way generating good, useful information for all of us.