What Now!

[Reef Box]

Wrasse nearly dead this morning! Quick stats while I work on treatments that I can think of. so far FW dip and Formalin MS

@Humblefish @Big G @4FordFamily

-Wrasse was QT'd for over 45 days (treated for Ich/Velvet and parasites) with copper and prazipro.
-Tank was fishless for over 2 months prior to adding to tank
- Fish has been in the tank for ~6 weeks
- Eating well
- No obvious signs of disease or parasite
- No other fish in tank
-All parameters good with the exception of an ALK overdose 3 days ago total reading during OD was ~15
if anyone has any idea let me know and I will try to figure out where I'm at. Could the ALK overdose have done this? Wrasse showed no issues for the last couple days and still eats.

 

[Big G]

That's a pretty high level of Alk. Wrasses being somewhat fragile, it may be the problem. Here's a bit of info that may help.

"Aquarium fish may suffer from serious problems as a result of high alkalinity in the tank. If it remains high over a prolonged period, it can dissolve the protective mucus layer that normally covers fish, leaving them vulnerable to bacterial attack and infection. Water that is too alkaline causes non-toxic ammonia to become toxic. Fish may have trouble breathing. It can also affect the fish’s fins and tails, damaging their growth and making them look ragged. Ultimately, fish in a highly alkaline environment may fail to thrive and can eventually die."

 

[Reef Box]

That's a pretty high level of Alk. Wrasses being somewhat fragile, it may be the problem. Here's a bit of info that may help.

He is accessible. Do you think I should net him and get it into QT. I have a powder blue that I just started copper treatment on. I would obviously have to reset the clock on that but it is an otherwise controlled area until I ensure the DT is ok. Or am I better off not subjecting the pb to whatever the issue is?

 

[Big G]

If the wrasse has been over exposed to toxic levels of ammonia by the high Alk, it may be your only chance of mitigating the damage would be a dip in Methylene Blue. Here's Humblefish's treatment advisory:
@Humblefish, @4FordFamily

Methylene Blue: Treats ammonia burn/exposure, cuts, injuries. Will possibly detoxify a fish that has been exposed to cyanide poisoning.

How To Treat - Comes in both liquid and powder form, sometimes mixed in with another medication. So, follow the directions on the label. Generally used as a 30 minute bath/dip at double dose, but you can also dose it directly into a quarantine tank. Aerate heavily. You can combine M Blue with nitrofurazone (active ingredient found in Furan-2) if needing to treat for a bacterial infection. In fact, Nitrofuracin Green Powder contains both medications and is great for treating open wounds or sores.

 

[Reef Box]

I will have to find that tomorrow. Unfortunately I have to leave for work in about 5 minutes. I got the wrasse into QT. If it’s a toxin issue it shouldn’t effect the PB. I will update in the morning. Fingers crossed that he makes it though the night. He seems to be moving around a little better after the formalin dip. Thanks @Big G. Always a great help.

 

[Humblefish]

Good advice by @Big G

Let’s also ask @evolved @eatbreakfast to weigh in

 

[Reef Box]

Also wanted to add that I did a hefty WC pretty quick after the OD. Still have some of the ALK that precipitated onto the sand / rocks etc. should I make a major effort to clean that up while fish are in QT or once the solution bonds with other elements in the water causing the precipitate is it mostly harmless. All corals looking pretty normal.

 

[evolved]

I can see a possible case for the Alk spike being a cause, but the only time I have seen this type of issue was just after shipping. And in those instances, it was generally attributed to "shipping damage" and a "neurological issue". Not very satisfying I know, and unfortunately I have never had a wrasse recover from that particular type of issue.

Still have some of the ALK that precipitated onto the sand / rocks etc. should I make a major effort to clean that up while fish are in QT or once the solution bonds with other elements in the water causing the precipitate is it mostly harmless.

It's harmless at this point, and just unsightly "chalk". No harm in cleaning it up if you don't like the "fresh snow" look.

 

[Reef Box]

I can see a possible case for the Alk spike being a cause, but the only time I have seen this type of issue was just after shipping. And in those instances, it was generally attributed to "shipping damage" and a "neurological issue". Not very satisfying I know, and unfortunately I have never had a wrasse recover from that particular type of issue.

Thanks Evolved, I've had the fish for several months both in QT and transferred to the DT. Never once saw anything like this from him. Always up in your face right against the glass, swimming back and forth and will eat from my fingers every day. This behavior just started at the time of the OP and completely out of character.

@Humblefish, is there a particular brand of Methylene Blue that i should look for or steer clear of?

 

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish, is there a particular brand of Methylene Blue that i should look for or steer clear of?

I’ve used both of these brands with success:

 

[Humblefish]

In addition, NFG contains MB: http://store.nationalfishpharm.com/NFP-products-Nitrofuracin-Green-59584.Item.html

 

[Reef Box]

New development. Tail seems to be deteriorating. Just got back with Kordon methylene blue. And prepping for a dip. @Humblefish @Big G @4FordFamily @evolved any diagnosis change?

 

[Reef Box]

I’ve used both of these brands with success:

Got the wrasse dipped today. 30min at double dose. Should I follow up with additional dips or does one typically work. I am trying not to stress him out any more than necessary.

 

[Humblefish]

I would say a secondary infection is developing. Using Triple Sulfa would be ideal, or kanamycin (Kanaplex) + neomycin (Neoplex). In a quarantine tank only though...

 

[MnFish1]

That's a pretty high level of Alk. Wrasses being somewhat fragile, it may be the problem. Here's a bit of info that may help.

"Aquarium fish may suffer from serious problems as a result of high alkalinity in the tank. If it remains high over a prolonged period, it can dissolve the protective mucus layer that normally covers fish, leaving them vulnerable to bacterial attack and infection. Water that is too alkaline causes non-toxic ammonia to become toxic. Fish may have trouble breathing. It can also affect the fish’s fins and tails, damaging their growth and making them look ragged. Ultimately, fish in a highly alkaline environment may fail to thrive and can eventually die."

Curious. Alkaline refers to a high ph. Not high alkalinity correct? Ie if the ph is ok the alk should not be the issue. Except that ammonia becomes more toxic. Or am I misunderstanding

 

[Reef Box]

Curious. Alkaline refers to a high ph. Not high alkalinity correct? Ie if the ph is ok the alk should not be the issue. Except that ammonia becomes more toxic. Or am I misunderstanding

The incident was a dosing pump that was inadvertently tuned on which dosed about 3-4 cups of 2 part (Alk only) throughout the night. I woke up to densely cloudy water. Immediately did a WC but couldn’t do much else at the immediate time. Tested alkalinity for a reading of around 13dKH which I think I said 15 previously, I apologize. There was a lot going on that day.

 

[Reef Box]

I would say a secondary infection is developing. Using Triple Sulfa would be ideal, or kanamycin (Kanaplex) + neomycin (Neoplex). In a quarantine tank only though...

I’m going to have to go pickup a second hospital tank and HOB filter for that. I currently have the wrasse in with the PB tang that I already had in QT

 

[DoobDob]

Maybe it just hurt itself and damaged its swim bladder?

 

[Reef Box]

Got the emergency tank up and running first thing this morning. I think it may be too late for the little guy. Not swimming much although alert. Breathing rapidly but not labored. Went ahead with the treatment of kanaplex unfortunately no neoplex avail within my area (I’ll get some ordered) the only triple sulfa I could find at LFS was expired by 6 mo. Worse case, I’ll lose him and have everything on hand for the next time so I can react a little sooner. Still learning....